Thanks to everyone who participated, the draw is now complete. If anyone missed the draw but still wants to give the map a try, I’d still be happy to hear about your feedback.
YouTube Video of the results of the Draw:
https://youtu.be/IwhD7ZcVS4I
Global Warming- stop getting so upset
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@Field:
When you talk global warming you talking in time periods of at least tens of thousands to millions of years. Has the industrial revolution to now effected the overall earth climate? I’d say no looking at it in an evolutionary time scale. Alledgedly, we are in a warm phase of the Ice Age. Will we stop the glaciers from advancing again in the next ten thousand or so years? Who knows!!!
Global warming happens on a much faster scale than 10^4 to 10^6 years. Still, it’s longer or comaparable to the human life time, therefore (as you as a person do not really sees it happening) mankind likes to ignore that.
Our models are getting better, i think it will take about 10 years until we have a good model. Let’s hope that the damage done until then is not too bad. -
So just by chance earth is entering a “warm cycle” during the time that we are polluting it most? I don’t believe in coincidences.
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@TG:
Yeah, i agree that the earth goes through changes or cycles. And like FM said, supposedly we are in a warm phase of the Ice Age. The question is, are we affecting it? Probably, but we’ll won’t know to what extent (maybe very little). The models we use today are very limited due to technology and variables.
THe problem is that the extend could be huge and long term, we should assume that the “worst case” scenario is true, and act to prevent that. Even though we maybe do “too much” that’s much better than ruining the future of all mankind.
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The problem is public support. Most people here (well at least where I live), don’t know about GW (maybe) or don’t seem to care (more likely). A classic example would be:
“When I get married, I’m going to have 6 kids!”
“Isn’t that a little much, with over population and all?”
“Who cares, I’ll be long dead before that happens! Nobody is going to care about 6 more people in a world of 6 billion!”Many scientist agree that the a lot of what we do today (depletion, pollution) won’t have any effects until hundreds, maybe even thousands of years from now. The question is, can people change their selfish attitude of, “Well, who cares? I’ll be dead by then.”
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F_alk - That’s the reason for not polluting. The earth will survive us. But future human generations may not, along with other species - talk about genocide…
The other thing to consider is past pollution. Scientists tell us that in the earth’s past there have been periods of high vulcanism. Much worse, longer lasting, and toxic than anything we’ve thrown in the air. The earth survived. I’m not saying this to justify our polluting to kill our children, but the earth will outlive us…if that’s any help…
Remember, the fate of all species is extinction. Even ours…
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I read abut an experiment that was looking at the effects of CO2 doubling on plants. It showed that when given double the CO2, the plants became twice as large. So this increase in CO2 is increasing the size of our plants and crops, which is essential in feeding the increasing populations of the world.
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Huh, you don’t say? Talk about lucking out :roll:
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@Field:
F_alk - That’s the reason for not polluting. The earth will survive us. But future human generations may not, along with other species - talk about genocide…Remember, the fate of all species is extinction. Even ours…
A nice quote of one of the ecologists movements in germany:
The nature does not need humans.
But humans need the nature! -
I read abut an experiment that was looking at the effects of CO2 doubling on plants. It showed that when given double the CO2, the plants became twice as large. So this increase in CO2 is increasing the size of our plants and crops, which is essential in feeding the increasing populations of the world.
Damn stupid plants, why can’t they grow in a few km height, where the CO2 is important for the greenhouse effect….
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So just by chance earth is entering a “warm cycle” during the time that we are polluting it most? I don’t believe in coincidences.
50/50 chance. The Earth is always either warming up or cooling down.
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50/50 chance. The Earth is always either warming up or cooling down.
It is not just a question of warming up, pollution can be dangerous on other level.
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So just by chance earth is entering a “warm cycle” during the time that we are polluting it most? I don’t believe in coincidences.
50/50 chance. The Earth is always either warming up or cooling down.
And that’s where you use science and it’s models.
To raise the chance of knowing what is happening.
And i would say, we are much better than at a 50/50 chance at the moment, and become more accurate “any minute”. -
I don’t deny that we arre pollusting the earth, and that the Earth is in a warm faze (glaciers whichare centuries/milinea old are melting all over Africa and stuff like that) But anyone who thinks that we are on the verge of water world is crazy.
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I prefer to be with crazy people that care about reducing pollution, than to be with crazy people that do not care about our planet.
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Well, I’m all in favor of conservation, but within certain bonds. Anyone who thinks we can switch from our polluting habits to a clean environment overnight is totally unfeasible. You can’t just do away with all the industrial buildings or high emission vehicles, it takes time and money. I know of no congressmen that purposely goes out and preaches pollution and environmental destruction, so that shouldn’t be a problem. The problem is figuring what programs to actually implementation, public support (a biggie) the standards and codes, projected effects, and possible consequences (factories being shut down, high cost, loss of jobs, energy crisis). Then you have to fight your way through lobbyist, a major pain.
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I prefer to be with crazy people that care about reducing pollution, than to be with crazy people that do not care about our planet.
there is never a middle ground with you, is there?!
it might be nice to spend some time with the first kind of crazy people, and maybe a little time with the other crazy people.
or maybe some time with both.
or how about just spending time with crazy people who care enough about the environment to recycle, bike and walk rather than drive, and only use appliances (see air conditioners) when necessary, but would prefer not to bomb oil refineries . . . .- lazy crypt
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I said i “prefer to be with crazy people that care about reducing pollution”, i did’nt said i prefer to be with extremist. Also “middle” is always subjective, and i don’t know, exept maybe for religion; where i am in an extreme.
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If extereme enviormentalism causes economic collapse, you are not really doing any good.
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Pollution cost a lot to a society, i think this is a very short vision to say trying to counter pollution is damaging the economy. At short term yes, but not at long term. Just in large cities where there is a lot of pollution, there is less oxygen in the air, people tend to be more anxious, more fragile. So it will really damage economy at long term to fight against air pollution (just an exemple)?
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So just by chance earth is entering a “warm cycle” during the time that we are polluting it most? I don’t believe in coincidences.
Ha! If there is warm and cold cycles, there is a 50% chance of one happening, so how is something with that sort of odds have to coincide with the other?
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