We’ll see. I’m just super afraid it’ll increase American morale if I attacked first. Worth a shot though as morale never undermined most campaigns on either side.
UK1 Strategy Blue Print
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@Tall:
YG,
I haven’t “studied” your UK-1 “blueprint” yet.
But I noticed right away your inclusion of the Transport w/Infantry going to Gibraltar. I think this is an absolutely necessary move for the Allies to make.
But by the same token, I believe for the Axis it’s also absolutely necessary to prevent this from happenning by sinking both of the UK Transports. If that happens (as it should) then the UK player can’t move to Gibraltar on UK-1. That’s one of the reasons I normally emphasize the importance of enemy Transports as my HIGHEST PRIORITY TARGETS.
Wouldn’t you agree that this thought pattern has merits under most circumstances? Especially G-1.
“Tall Paul”
I agree with you here. I try to always take out enemy transports whenever possible and desperatly try to keep my transports protected. Sometimes they are more important units than aircraft carriers or battleships.
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Sorry all, crazy evening last night, thanks for the comments and I will address them today. Cheers.
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It seems this blueprint assumes that Germany hit sz110 instead of sz109. If instead they hit and cleared 109, 106, and 111 and thus UK has no Destroyers in the Atlantic, do you have contingencies on what to do with the UK air that can no longer attack subs? Or do they just move to the landing spots you mention as a non-combat move? Also, if Gemany didn’t hit sz110, the UK has an extra BB and Cruiser to play around with. What would they do?
Or is this a “assume Germany cleared sz110, 111, and 112” blueprint?
Of course my blue print can only assume what is left over after G1, that said, if the destroyer in 109 is spared, I will use it with my fighters to kill stranded U-boats. If I have the 110 ships remaining, I will send them straight into the Med.
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I have a bit of an odd ball idea with regards to the defense of London. Based on your German blueprint, and sz110 not being hit, I was thinking of moving those forces to the Med, buying a minor IC UK1 and placing it in egypt and use the rest of my money to buy infantry to defend London. Then on UK 2 I would move all fighters and the bombers to Gibraltar and spend my entire economy on units for Egypt(infantry and/or Artillery), South Africa(tanks and/or Transports), or Quebec(destroyers and/or fighters).
They way I see it, London is going to fall either way, and rather then waste the resources is a heroic but ultimatley pointless defense, I could better position Britian to continue to fighter after the fall of London mainly against Italy in the Med.
Crazy I know but might be worth it.
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I have seen this done, and without an income the UK will eventually lose the Egypt IC by round 6 or 7. I have been thinking about a strategy in G2 if Germany were to buy 7 fighters, all for the cause of helping Italy regain the Med.
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@Young:
In the spirit of blue prints, I wanted to repost my UK1 because it didn’t get much attention in the other thread, due to the controversial US strategy blue print that was in the same post. its an aggressive turn which will depend on the US protecting Calcutta from the south Pacific. Any feed back on this would be great.
United Kingdom #1
Purchase new units (London) = $28
6 infantry
1 fighterPurchase new units (India) = $17
4 infantry
1 AA gunCombat movements
Attack SZ#96 with
1 aircraft carrier and tactical bomber from SZ#98 (Egypt)
1 fighter from Gibraltar (aircraft carrier)
1 fighter from Malta (Egypt)
There is nothing in SZ 96 in the Med… Italy has ships in SZ 95 and 97. What makes this a combat move?Italy has 1 Sub, 1 Dest, 1 Cr, 1 Trn in SZ 95 and 1 Cr, 1 Battleship, 1 Trn in SZ 97. Attacking either with that force are guaranteed losses for the UK. Are you planning on not attacking the Italian fleets on UK1 while they are still split?You really can’t win SZ 97 by sending in everything available, odds are bad for UK1.
You CAN win SZ95 by sending in the cruiser from SZ 91, the fighter from Gibraltar (to land on AC) and everything else in the Med. However, if Germany lands a fighter in S.Italy the odds drop to 50-50 and you have to hope France’s navy finishes off the whatever remains from the inevitable counter attack from Italy from SZ 97 + Strat Bomb in N.Italy.
UK1 attack SZ 95 with
1 TacB from AC in SZ 98
1 Cruise, 1 Dest from SZ 98
1 Cruise from SZ 91
1 Fighter from Malta
1 Fighter (to AC) from Gibraltar
versus
1 Sub
1 Dest
1 Cruise
2 Fighters Scrambled (80% win for UK), possibly 3 (50-50 win) if Germany lands a fighter in S.ItalyYou should lose both cruisers, a destroyer and maybe your TacB (Likely not if no scramble happens)
Uk1 NCom
Move AC into SZ95, Land 2 fighters on it
Land TacB on Malta (If survived)Italy Counter
Attack SZ 95 with
1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser from SZ 97
1 StratB from N.Italy
versus
1 AC, 2 Fighters60% Chance of Loss. Even worse if Italy chooses NOT to scramble fighters and sacrifices the fleet in SZ 95 (98% Win). Even if a Cruiser or two survive the UK1 attack, your odds don’t change much of winning the counter attack from Italy (60% win). However, the French Fleet is then primed for a Counter-Counter Attack against a likely damaged Battleship assuming the Italians choose to lose their fighters to preserve their 20 IPC battleship to control the Med.
France1 Attack SZ 95 with
1 Cruiser, 1 Dest from SZ 93
versus
1 Battleship (crippled)
1 Fighter (Germany Scramble from S.Italy)Odds are in favor of Italy because I can’t put a crippled battleship into my odds calculator, but you only need to score 1 hit to basically eliminate the Italian fleet and likely all of its Air Force minus maybe a StratB. If for some case the Battleship survives that attack, UK2 still has a TacB on Malta to finish it off. Fortunately there is a destroyer coming in from S.Africa, and a French ship moving in from off of Madagascar that will both be poised for Turn2 moves into the Med. Same may go for the UK Destroyer from SZ 106. You also preserve your Trn for a UK2 move into Greece that will be protected by at least 1 Destroyer with little or no available units for Italy to remove it.
Non-combat movements
Move cruiser from 91 into 94
Move cruiser and destroyer from 98 into 99
Move transport into 96, pick up AA gun and infantry, move to 81, drop in Egypt.
Wouldn’t it make sense to move that Transport in with the Cruiser and Destroyer (assuming you don’t like the outcome for the Sea Battles) into Greece on UK1 and take the 2 extra IPC for Greece and gain that infantry? Italy surely will be taking Bulgaria on T1 and be attacking Greece on Turn 2 with 6 Inf, 1 Tank with pretty good odds (91% Win). By adding 1 Inf on T1 and 1 Inf, 1Art on T2 you will take control of that part of Europe with the potential to take Bulgaria and then Yugo on T3?
Move 1 infantry and 1 mec infantry from Egypt and 1 tank from Alexandria to Anglo Egypt Sudan
Move 1 infantry and 1 artillery from Alexandria to Egypt
Personally I prefer to Non-Com all of Egypt into Alexandria. Italy can’t beat that force (80% win for defender in Alexandria) with just what it has in Tobruk. This negates Italy’s push against Egypt for at least a single turn. You can delay further to Turn 3 by moving everything from Alexandria to Egypt on UK2 and giving up Alexandria with no IPC value. By Moving France out of Syria and into Egypt (by the end of T2) you can effectively have 7 Inf, 1 Mech, 2 Art, 1 Tank and unless Italy finds a way to re-inforce, you will have a 90% chance of winning a defensive battle in Egypt. Even better if the TacB survives the battle for the Med because you can land in Egypt too. Further compounding it is if you fly the fighters in from India for a solid counter attack component that will arrive in Egypt on UK2. The best option, however, is assuming the TacB survives is to attack Tobruk on T2 (assuming Italy didn’t withdraw and push against Morocco. You have 91% win factor if Italy does nothing with both Egypt and Alexandria’s forces on a UK2 attack against Tobruk.
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@Young:
I have seen this done, and without an income the UK will eventually lose the Egypt IC by round 6 or 7.
How so? Could you quantify that statment a bit more please? I know this is an extreamly unorthodox approach to playing the UK but Im just wondering how would be the one to take it down in your opinion? Also remember, this plan is predicated on the idea that the battleship and cruiser in sz110 are spared from a G1 attack and join the cruiser in sz91 (also assumed to be left unharmed) and entering the Med on UK1. Then on UK2 ALL the fighters from the UK redeploy to Gibraltar and move to reinforce the British position in Egypt on later UK turns.
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@Young:
I have seen this done, and without an income the UK will eventually lose the Egypt IC by round 6 or 7.
How so? Could you quantify that statment a bit more please? I know this is an extreamly unorthodox approach to playing the UK but Im just wondering how would be the one to take it down in your opinion? Also remember, this plan is predicated on the idea that the battleship and cruiser in sz110 are spared from a G1 attack and join the cruiser in sz91 (also assumed to be left unharmed) and entering the Med on UK1. Then on UK2 ALL the fighters from the UK redeploy to Gibraltar and move to reinforce the British position in Egypt on later UK turns.
I agree that the start up pieces that the UK have at their disposal, are menacing, especially in the Mediterranean theater. However, a factory that close to the front will need a constant influx of supplies, and if the London capital falls say round 3, no income = no supplies. So, for your IC in Egypt plan to work, it will need to be purchased in the first round or second at the latest if Germany pulls of a sea lion operation round 3. If fact an early IC purchase in Egypt only makes sea lion more possible given the amount of resources directed away from the defense of London. I don’t disagree with an IC in Egypt, but I would wait until turn 4 or 5 to see what the landscape looks like.
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Spendo02
The latest set up changes, as described in the Alpha+3 rule modifications by the A&A designer Larry Harris, has put an Italian destroyer and transport in sea zone #96. There are also many other set up changes and new rules altogether like AA guns are no longer a 1 per territory unit, and can now be taken as casualties. Check it out here at……
To me it is important to get the Malta units to Egypt, and thats why I withdraw the transport through the Suez.
I am very aggressive on the sea, but I don’t want to push to hard overall by moving everything into Alexandria (the axis are still to be feared in the first 5 rounds of the game).
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YG:
I was basing my setups on the graphical templates stickied, not the updated rule set. That change must have snuck through and clearly changes the entire Mediterranean Contingency for Italy and the UK.
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It seems this blueprint assumes that Germany hit sz110 instead of sz109. If instead they hit and cleared 109, 106, and 111 and thus UK has no Destroyers in the Atlantic, do you have contingencies on what to do with the UK air that can no longer attack subs? Or do they just move to the landing spots you mention as a non-combat move? Also, if Gemany didn’t hit sz110, the UK has an extra BB and Cruiser to play around with. What would they do?
Or is this a “assume Germany cleared sz110, 111, and 112” blueprint?
Good point. It’s my standard open to hit SZ 106, SZ 109, SZ 111 and SZ 112 on Germany 1, precisely to prevent England from attacking my submarines and to force them to suffer the maximum amount of convoy damage as possible. (Yes, that meant in one or two games I lost a tactical bomber instead of a submarine, just so I could force there to be 2 submarines left in SZ 109.)
Also, what if you bomb the naval base in Gibraltar? (this assumes Sea Lion and you winning - as you should). Don’t actually TAKE it, but bomb it so it cannot be repaired. Serious damage to the American war-effort, they cannot reach SZ 112 from Gibraltar, but you can reach Gibraltar from SZ 112!! Problem is that now the Italians are stuck.
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Guys,
IMHO the Italian player on I-1 should make a high priority the taking of Gibraltar
on I-1. This would seem to counter your proposed UK movement to Gilbratar. If the UK moves a large portion of the fleet to the Med. it usually helps the German player.–-------------------------
And IMHO the German player on G-1 should ALWAYS take out the 2 UK Transports and 3 Destroyers located:
SZ 106 (1-DD and 1-AP), SZ 109 (1-DD and 1-AP), and SZ 110 (1-DD and 1-BB).
Please understand that I don’t think MY IDEAS are original, or the only way to play. In Axis & Allies, just as in real life, there are counters to every move.
I love this game because of the constant move/countermove strategies envolved.
I think A&A.ORG, and this particular thread about “blueprinting” your moves are excellent places to interact with others and learn their viewpoints.
What do ya’ll think of these “Priorities” for the G-1 and I-1 moves?
“Tall Paul”
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Well, I agree in so much the destroyers. Gibraltar is a different matter, to me, and it depends on which German strategy you are going with: England or Russia. IF you are going England then the odds are VERY favorable that you will win putting the issue of Gibraltar in doubt. Do you want it so you can get the fleet from Italy out? Would you rather just build ground units to take over attacking Russia with and keep the Germans forcused on fleet (remember, it does not matter who controls a lot of these territories for Germany to get the NOs still). If you dont mind keeping the Italians in the Med, then Gibraltar becomes a liability and you are better off bombing the naval base after London falls so it cannot ever be used by the allies (even if they liberate London it’s probably 2 turns before they can work on repairing the naval base.)
If you are going after Russia, primarily, then Gibraltar is a must have, as England can keep repairing the naval base there indefinitely negating the whole reason for attacking the naval base and not taking Gibraltar.
I did have my first win with Italy the other day, Italians took Moscow and Germany was pretty much all fighters and fleet to keep the Americans at bay.
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Grasshopper,
Not to bang on about this, but who is going to be taking the IC? I understand what you are saying about the no income meaning no reinforcments and I had mentioned that for this plan to work I would build the factory there on UK1. Im not trying to save London but rather accepting that London’s loss is inevitable and assuring my ability to resist on other fronts, and secure my income so that when London is liberated I will have my full economy to use. Im wondering what you see the Euro-axis doing to take Egypt in the face of 2 new fronts opening up against them when London falls. -
Grasshopper,
Not to bang on about this, but who is going to be taking the IC? I understand what you are saying about the no income meaning no reinforcments and I had mentioned that for this plan to work I would build the factory there on UK1. Im not trying to save London but rather accepting that London’s loss is inevitable and assuring my ability to resist on other fronts, and secure my income so that when London is liberated I will have my full economy to use. Im wondering what you see the Euro-axis doing to take Egypt in the face of 2 new fronts opening up against them when London falls.If you are accepting the loss of London, then I don’t think you should be buying industrial complexes. When I go surrender London, I focus on inflicting as many casualties as possible, so long as I end up with 1 or 2 carriers in range of British fighters but out of range of German ones so I can evac at the last minute and sail away.
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@Tall:
Guys,
IMHO the Italian player on I-1 should make a high priority the taking of Gibraltar
on I-1. This would seem to counter your proposed UK movement to Gilbratar. If the UK moves a large portion of the fleet to the Med. it usually helps the German player.–-------------------------
And IMHO the German player on G-1 should ALWAYS take out the 2 UK Transports and 3 Destroyers located:
SZ 106 (1-DD and 1-AP), SZ 109 (1-DD and 1-AP), and SZ 110 (1-DD and 1-BB).
Please understand that I don’t think MY IDEAS are original, or the only way to play. In Axis & Allies, just as in real life, there are counters to every move.
I love this game because of the constant move/countermove strategies envolved.
I think A&A.ORG, and this particular thread about “blueprinting” your moves are excellent places to interact with others and learn their viewpoints.
What do ya’ll think of these “Priorities” for the G-1 and I-1 moves?
“Tall Paul”
There is no destroyer in #110, its a battleship and a cruiser.
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Grasshopper,
Not to bang on about this, but who is going to be taking the IC? I understand what you are saying about the no income meaning no reinforcments and I had mentioned that for this plan to work I would build the factory there on UK1. Im not trying to save London but rather accepting that London’s loss is inevitable and assuring my ability to resist on other fronts, and secure my income so that when London is liberated I will have my full economy to use. Im wondering what you see the Euro-axis doing to take Egypt in the face of 2 new fronts opening up against them when London falls.With the loss of London G-3, the Italians should be able to capture an IC in Egypt by I-5.
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@Cmdr:
If you are accepting the loss of London, then I don’t think you should be buying industrial complexes…
Ok Jen, fair point, I could fore go buying the IC for egypt and just concentrate on reinforcing South Africa and possibly Canada.
@Young:
With the loss of London G-3, the Italians should be able to capture an IC in Egypt by I-5.
Well, to put it bluntly, with what? If I, as the UK, open with a Taranto attack in the Med. Theater, and then proceed to reinforce my fleet with the (assumed) Battleship and cruiser from sz110 and cruiser from sz91, how are the Italians going to reinforce themselves in Africa to take the factory in Egypt? They are near equal to the British in the initial set-up with only a few infantry more which is not enough to give them a clear edge. This also seems to ignore that for atleast 1 turn I could place, say, 3 tanks in Egypt on UK2, giving me a clear advantage over the Italians. By the time UK3 rolled around the fighters I had flee London would also be in position to further reinforce the UK position, and any forces I delpoy to South Africa would just be arriving in Egypt. Also, the US will be able to make combat moves on R3 further strenghting the Brits in the Med (though the US is likely to focuse on retaking London). So I am asking for you to explain to me how Italy is going to over come all this and still capture Egypt (because to me this would mean you have one hell of an Italian strategy).
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Clyde, you’re trying to make a case for buying an IC for Egypt, not an impossible task, but not an easy one either. What I am saying is, as soon as you put an IC there, it will become a juicy rare steak in a dog pound. It has been said that the Torano battle favours Italy, that’s why in my blue print I force Italy to attack me. However, this discurion is point less if London falls, which will be a strong possibility if you divert $12+$ for future units in Affrica, that’s all I’m saying, and I’m done saying it. My suggestion would be to defend England with every tooth you have, and move the East India infantry towards Persia, if London is safe come turn 4, build an IC there. It is a much better location IMO, because it can protect Calutta with Europe money or, transport troops to Africa or sent them to protect Stalingrad. Again, this discussion like the Egypt one is trash if London falls.
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Clyde,
If I receive Taranto then I am going to do Sea Lion, you won’t have the firepower to come close to stopping me, but it sounds like you are okay with that. What I’d do afterwards is focus on Infantry builds for Italy, get those units up and press them down to Greece. England’s not reinforcing the fleet, so it’s only a matter of time before you can overwhelm them with German submarines (SZ 105 can get to 92 in one round.)
That’s just me.
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