• But wouldn’t it make sealion much harder and much less worth it? those 2 infantry in UK wouldn’t do much for a while. I don’t see UK building up a fleet and using them for at least 3 turns. Since UK lost 2 airbases 2 infanftry and a fighter why not add 2 infantry to UK to stop sea lion?


  • @Cmdr:

    The new AA Guns are worthwhile because Germany and Russia can use them on the front lines now without “losing” anything. (Because they gained guns, they have guns to spare.)  
    But they did that in A2.  As Germany I always kept my aa guns at the front and tried to snipe Russian air with them.  Russia did the same, moving the aa guns with their stacks.  These aa guns cannot be used to attack, only defend.  Like before I see them as valuable to covering your vanguard as before.

    The new AA Guns are worthwhile because they are no attack units that can be used as damage sponges for major campaigns.
    meh, not really an issue because we kept our aa guns with the stack in A2.  Their purpose was to fire at aircraft, not take hits from ground units.

    The new AA Guns are worthwhile because they are more realistic, they cannot shoot down 15 planes with 1 gun, they need at least 5 to do that now, meaning - among other things - that some targets will be more heavily defended than others.  
    They are still unrealistic.  My 20 mm aa gun cannot shoot down 3 B24s.  Realism is not a reason because due to the scale of the game it doesn’t make sense.  The aa gun represents anti aircraft capabilites, not guns pointed in the air, people.  Think lookouts, interceptors, radar, direction finding beams, flak towers, spotlights……

    All you’re ‘points’ didn’t have an effect on the aa gun changes.  They were around in A2 and are around in A3, fulfilling the same basic function of protecting your army from air attack.  Now they just do it much worse and also provide a meat shield to your army after they fire.  Anyone have any better thought out reasons??


  • @JimmyHat:

    All you’re ‘points’ didn’t have an effect on the aa gun changes.  They were around in A2 and are around in A3, fulfilling the same basic function of protecting your army from air attack.  Now they just do it much worse and also provide a meat shield to your army after they fire.  Anyone have any better thought out reasons??

    They fit the chips perfectly?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I don’t think AA Guns fire at each attacking plane individually at all in Alpha 3 (nor Alpha 2 and I am relatively sure not in OOB but I don’t have that rule book right now, so I won’t say definitively.)

    If you attack Burma in Alpha 2 with an AA Gun with 14 fighters, 12 tactical bombers and 4 strategic bombers, the defender rolls 30 AA Shots and the attacker chooses what is lost so it’s not a strategic bomber, it’s a fighter.

    Same in Alpha 3.  Each gun fires up to 3 shots and in exchange for not being able to shoot down all attacking aircraft all the time, you can elect to take it as a casualty and keep a unit you decide is more important to you.  As in all games, except Anniversary, AA Gun hits are designated by the attacker who selects what casualities he or she wants.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Confirmation from Krieghund:

    You fire all your AA Gun shots and the attacker decides what gets hit so odds are, you will NEVER shoot down a Strategic Bomber and this was true for all versions of Global.  So yea, the guns are no different than they were originally, except they are limited in scope on how many shots they can take, in exchange for less shots, you get to take them as a casualty.


  • Wow, well I’ve always played that the aa gun fires for each ‘class’ of air.  So you roll dice for ftrs, then for tacs, then for bmbs to see which aircraft were shot down……now were talking about land battles and not SBRs correct?

  • Customizer

    @JimmyHat:

    Wow, well I’ve always played that the aa gun fires for each ‘class’ of air.  So you roll dice for ftrs, then for tacs, then for bmbs to see which aircraft were shot down……now were talking about land battles and not SBRs correct?

    Yes, this is strictly land battles, not SBRs.  All facilities have their own built in AA defenses and thus have their own rules as to how to employ them.  The AA Guns that we place on the board are only involved in actual land battles between the military units.
    Also JimmyHat, you were doing it correctly by rolling for each class of aircraft through Alpha+2.  Up through Alpha+2, we just had 1 AA gun that got a shot at each attacking aircraft and you were supposed to roll by type of aircraft (roll for fighters, roll for tacs, roll for bombers).  Now in Alpha+3, we have multiple AA Guns that are limited to 3 shots per gun, or total number of planes whichever is less (Example:  7 planes attack 3 AA guns, AA guns only get 7 shots, not 9).  Also, now you simply roll for ALL aircraft attacking and any hits are designated by the attacker.  So, unless you have a REALLY lucky roll, odds are you will not hit a strategic bomber unless that is the only aircraft the attacker is bringing to battle.


  • Ugh, thats a punch in the guts.  The only way to hit bmbs used to be the aa gun….now there is no way.


  • knp’s right, Jen.
    Before Alpha 3, every single attacking plane had an equal chance to be shot down; the attacker could not choose losses to AA.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @JimmyHat:

    Ugh, thats a punch in the guts.  The only way to hit bmbs used to be the aa gun….now there is no way.

    Aye.  That’s the idea.  You can even insulate yourself against facility AA Guns by bringing Tactical Bombers in to soak hits on “their” runs against a base so you could preserve your strategic bombers.

  • Customizer

    @Cmdr:

    Aye.  That’s the idea.  You can even insulate yourself against facility AA Guns by bringing Tactical Bombers in to soak hits on “their” runs against a base so you could preserve your strategic bombers.

    That’s only if you bring both Tacs and Strats to attack a base, right?  In SBRs against ICs, you can only have Strategic bombers so any AA hits will take out a strategic bomber.

    By the way, how many of you SBR air or naval bases?  How often?  We don’t SBR very often, and when we do it’s always against ICs.  I don’t think we have EVER SBRed an air or naval base.  Never really see a reason to do so.  Yeah, it would be nice to eliminate the repairing ability and extra move of a naval base or to eliminate the extra move and scrambling ability of an air base.  I guess since we don’t end up doing a whole lot of SBRs, when we do we want to concentrate on the enemy’s production capabilities rather than the perks given by bases.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Against England?  I do it on Round 2 EVERYTIME.  2 Tacticals to the Airbase, 2 Strategics to the Complex.  That way I have great odds of doing 12 damage to England and losing an 11 IPC tactical bomber.

  • Customizer

    @Cmdr:

    Against England?  I do it on Round 2 EVERYTIME.  2 Tacticals to the Airbase, 2 Strategics to the Complex.  That way I have great odds of doing 12 damage to England and losing an 11 IPC tactical bomber.

    Do you do that before attacking the Royal Navy (paricularly SZ 110) so England can’t scramble?  You know what?  That’s a pretty good idea.  I always want to sink the Royal Navy as Germany but have so much trouble because UK scrambles and I end up losing a lot of planes.  Maybe better to go after the airbases first then attack the navy next round.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @knp7765:

    @Cmdr:

    Against England?  I do it on Round 2 EVERYTIME.  2 Tacticals to the Airbase, 2 Strategics to the Complex.  That way I have great odds of doing 12 damage to England and losing an 11 IPC tactical bomber.

    Do you do that before attacking the Royal Navy (paricularly SZ 110) so England can’t scramble?  You know what?  That’s a pretty good idea.  I always want to sink the Royal Navy as Germany but have so much trouble because UK scrambles and I end up losing a lot of planes.  Maybe better to go after the airbases first then attack the navy next round.

    No, the Royal navy is dead.  I don’t need any fighters or bombers for France anymore, it’s a pushover and I usually get at least France and W. France without any aircraft help, sometimes if I feel high and mighty, I take S. France too.

    It’s round 2 attack because I need the airforce for round 1.  Smack the crud out of England on Round 2 so they can’t build as much and then pull out on round 3 so they get a nice, fat paycheck for you to take round 4.  Since on Round 4 everyone can attack anyway, there’s no deterrant.


  • When you SBR the industrial complex the aa gun rolls independently of the naval/air base aa gun. So when you SBR an IC you do risk your SB from being taken as a casualty

  • Customizer

    @Cmdr:

    No, the Royal navy is dead.  I don’t need any fighters or bombers for France anymore, it’s a pushover and I usually get at least France and W. France without any aircraft help, sometimes if I feel high and mighty, I take S. France too.

    It’s round 2 attack because I need the airforce for round 1.  Smack the crud out of England on Round 2 so they can’t build as much and then pull out on round 3 so they get a nice, fat paycheck for you to take round 4.  Since on Round 4 everyone can attack anyway, there’s no deterrant.

    I see now.  By round 4, even if the Russians do attack you have enough stuff along the border that they won’t get very far while you are finishing off England.  Then on round 5, you have all those lovely British Pounds to spend and really focus your attention on the Red Menace. 
    So you don’t try to convoy raid them with your subs, right?  Just pound their factories, let them spend money on repairs which of course means less on units, then collect a full income for you to take round 4.  Good thinking!

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @knp7765:

    @Cmdr:

    No, the Royal navy is dead.  I don’t need any fighters or bombers for France anymore, it’s a pushover and I usually get at least France and W. France without any aircraft help, sometimes if I feel high and mighty, I take S. France too.

    It’s round 2 attack because I need the airforce for round 1.  Smack the crud out of England on Round 2 so they can’t build as much and then pull out on round 3 so they get a nice, fat paycheck for you to take round 4.  Since on Round 4 everyone can attack anyway, there’s no deterrant.

    I see now.  By round 4, even if the Russians do attack you have enough stuff along the border that they won’t get very far while you are finishing off England.  Then on round 5, you have all those lovely British Pounds to spend and really focus your attention on the Red Menace. 
    So you don’t try to convoy raid them with your subs, right?  Just pound their factories, let them spend money on repairs which of course means less on units, then collect a full income for you to take round 4.  Good thinking!

    Do neither on round 3.  You want that pretty paycheck.

    Then you can transport all those pretties back home.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    And in India, if you have to trade 3-5 aircraft to get it prior to USA coming into the war, it’s worth the investment!  No England anywhere on the map = yummy!


  • @Cmdr:

    @JimmyHat:

    Ugh, thats a punch in the guts.  The only way to hit bmbs used to be the aa gun….now there is no way.

    Aye.  That’s the idea.  You can even insulate yourself against facility AA Guns by bringing Tactical Bombers in to soak hits on “their” runs against a base so you could preserve your strategic bombers.

    Awesome, the best unit in the game…has the most movement, can hit sea and air, and rolls a 4…cannot be taken down!  I think Larry needs to add more bmb’s then!  Lets do 4 per country and see how many get shot down over the course of a game.

    I am feeling totally lost because what I assume was a great game is turning into this pile of muck that smells awful and isnt pretty to look at.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Actually, I like the bombers and AA Gun changes…I dont like all the units they took away from England it’s almost as if Larry WANTs England totally removed from the game before anyone can do anything to help them.

    I’d, personally, take Alpha 2 but with the AA Gun changes.

    @JimmyHat:

    @Cmdr:

    @JimmyHat:

    Ugh, thats a punch in the guts.  The only way to hit bmbs used to be the aa gun….now there is no way.

    Aye.  That’s the idea.  You can even insulate yourself against facility AA Guns by bringing Tactical Bombers in to soak hits on “their” runs against a base so you could preserve your strategic bombers.

    Awesome, the best unit in the game…has the most movement, can hit sea and air, and rolls a 4…cannot be taken down!  I think Larry needs to add more bmb’s then!  Lets do 4 per country and see how many get shot down over the course of a game.

    I am feeling totally lost because what I assume was a great game is turning into this pile of muck that smells awful and isnt pretty to look at.

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