I tried your strategy. I really wanted to see if it would work. Unfortunately, it did not, but I don’t think it can be entirely blamed on the strategy itself. If things would have worked out better, I think this could work, at least once on the same player. Here is what happened:
Germany 1: Purchased 1 carrier, 1 DD, 1 SS. Went after France and Royal Navy. England did NOT scramble fighters so naval battles were successful. Killed all in sea zones 110, 111, 106 (off Canada) and 91 (2 subs attacked cruiser, killed cruiser but 1 sub died). Both subs survived off Canada, now I can convoy raid for 3 points. Lost 2 fighters, 1 tac in naval battles. Landed 1 fighter, 1 tac on carrier SZ 112, strat bomber on W Germany, 1 fighter, 2 tacs on Holland/Belgium. Also took Normandy, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Finland. Also, sent fgtr & tac from eastern Europe to S Italy.
France did not go so well. Combination of not enough stuff and bad dice led to German forces wiped out with French tank and fighter left. Germany only clears 47 IPCs.
Japan 1: Did everything as you laid out.
USA 1: Japan’s movements make US suspicious. US builds navy and ground units. Heavily fortifies Alaska with 4 fighters + inf from W US and Hawaii. Pretty much abandons Philippines and Hawaii and starts massing entire fleet SZ 10.
England 1: UK suspects Sealion and plops 8 guys and 1 art on London. Takes surviving transport from SZ 109 with 2 inf plus 2 London fighters and 1 Scotland fighter and attacks Holland/Belgium. Loses both inf and 1 fighter but kills ALL 3 German planes. Remaining 2 fighters land in Paris. Also, attempteed Taranto but lost all fleet and air. Killed German and Italian planes + Italian cruiser and 1 hit on Italian BB. British army trounced Italian army on Tobruk, 2 art 1 tank survives.
Italy 1: Repaired BB. Sent sub to SZ 96 to kill lone transport. Sent 1 transport with 2 inf to take Gibraltar which was left empty. Sent rest of Italian navy to take out French navy and amphib assault S France. French Navy proves unusually tough killing 2 Italian DDs, 1 CA and wounding the BB again. Amphib assault goes much better with 1 tank, 3 inf against 1 inf, 1 art. French die, no Italian losses. Everything in N Italy goes after France. Do you think 2 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter and 1 tac is enough to handle 1 french tank, 1 French fighter and 2 British fighters? Well, it WASN"T THIS TIME! Both forces totally wiped out. Result, France survives to round 2.
ROUND 2 in next post.
I forgot France 1: Bought 3 inf, 1 art and 1 tank. Placed them in Paris. Not much else they could do.
Germany 2: With much less money than they should have had, Germany could only get 6 transports. Germany manages to keep enough men and equipment either in W Germany or along the coast so the 7 transports can get them. Anything else that can reach hits Paris AGAIN. This time Paris falls, but barely. Only 1 German tank plus the aircraft survive. Don’t know why the French were so dang tough in this game. If they were any bigger, they might have won the war in this game. Germany sends BB & CA to kill British DD in SZ 91. (It went there to try and kill German Sub in 91 but sub submerged (BY THE WAY, I use a house rule where destroyers, and any planes with them, get the first shot at submarines. If they don’t hit, the subs can submerge. I’ve never liked the rule that subs can’t submerge with enemy DD present.)) German DD in SZ 112 goes to kill lone transport in SZ 110. Subs from SZ 112 and SZ 91 goe to SZ 109 to convoy raid 6 points from Brits. Also took Greece and starting to move anything left to Eastern front.
Russia 2: With all Japan’s Manchuria force in Korea and just 1 art in Manchuria, USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria with 12 inf, easily killing 1 Jap Art.
Japan 2: Keeping with plan, Japan abandons Korea to transport all the stuff to SZ 9. With the extra 12 IPCs from Russias DOW, buy an extra cruiser.
USA 2: Still suspicious of Japan, but not Germany yet. Building more navy in SZ 10 and shucking guys to Alaska with 2 transports. Cruiser and Transport from SZ 101 sitting in SZ 64, so Jap fleet has to gather in SZ 11 for now. USA not just making navy, but also land units with some aircraft in CUS and EUS.
UK 2: With navy all sunk and planes all destroyed, buys more men for London plus a tank for South Africa. Pretty much turtling.
Italy 2: Small force in Africa getting a few points, but will be surrounded soon. Reparied BB AGAIN. Move BB and 3 TRN with 5 men, 1 tank to SZ 91. I think built 1 fighter and 2 men. Italian sub convoy raids Egypt. No Allied ships in Med. Axis control Gibraltar, S France and Greece. Italy getting 10 points in NOs.
Round 3 next
Here’s ROUND 3
Germany 3: Purchased minor IC for Norway and lots of men and tanks. Moved fleet to SZ 91 with 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 CV w/fighter & tac, and 7 transports – 7 inf, 5 art, 2 tanks. 5 subs still convoy raiding UK and Canada. Still trying to move anything left to eastern front.
USSR 3: Heavy buildup along German border. Due to having to attack France twice, Germans are weak along border and Russian troops out number them at present.
Japan 3: Moving more stuff to SZ 9 and SZ 11. MAY HAVE MADE MISTAKE HERE. Decided NOT to attack US or North America yet because didn’t want US ICs changed to Majors due to Germany’s lesser attack force. USA already has quite a bit of ground troops and tanks for defense. Afraid if US had Major ICs, Germany would never be successful in attacking either EUS or CUS.
USA 3: USA sees German move to SZ 91 and is VERY nervous, realizing Germany has no intention of Sealion now. US had some men and mech inf scattered through SE Mexico and Central America. Now US pulls everything back, plus builds more troops and ships in SZ 10. Navy is HUGE – 2 CV w/ 3 fgtr & 1 tac, 3 BB, 2 CA, 5 DD, 2 SS. He also pulls 2 fgtrs from Alaska to one of the CVs and sends those fighters to EUS. Now on EUS he has amassed 3 inf, 2 art, 6 tanks and 2 fighters. On CUS it is not so heavy – 2 inf, 3 mechs, 2 tanks. The CA and TRN move from SZ 64 back to SZ 101. On collect income phase, US delcares war on Axis, getting the Major ICs and all the NOs.
UK 3: Tried putting 2 DDs in water. Another tank for South Africa. Lone Italian infantry killed. Trying to surround 2 inf & 1 art originally from Ethiopia.
Italy 3: Small force in Africa trying to elude British. Italians strike CUS. Italian BB kills US CA & TRN. Italian force of 5 inf and 1 tank is wiped out, but takes 2 US inf with them.
ROUND 4 next post.
Here is round 4. I think this is where things start to go awry.
Germany 4: the Germans strike CUS and take it losing only 2 infantry. They now have 5 infantry, 5 artillery and 2 tanks in CUS. Also, the IC is reduced to a minor. In Europe, more men are spread around along the Soviet border. Now it looks much better. Finland is still a little weak. Romania is even supported by a couple of Italian units. Also, German subs kill 2 Brit DDs along with planes from German carrier, since they couldn’t participate in US battle. This means that carrier had to stay in SZ 91 because planes couldn’t make it to SZ 101.
USSR 4: Russia declares war on Europe Axis. Russia goes in on 4 fronts. In Finland, they pound the Axis pretty thoroghly and take Finland. Further south it doesn’t go so well. All 3 attacks are repulsed, the E Poland and Bessarabian forces are particularly mauled. Unfortunately for Russia, most of their stuff was in the first assault and they don’t have much coming up in reserve. They do get some troops up there but it’s really weak now and clearly Germany has the upper hand.
Japan 4: JAPAN STRIKES. Half the transports land their troops on Alaska, the other half on British Columbia (which I forgot to mention had all the Canadian UK forces moved over there, plus an extra tank purchased earlier). ALL the Japanese navy slams into SZ 10 to take on the huge US Navy, which also has a fighter scramble from WUS. THIS HERE I THINK IS A CRITICAL MISTAKE. Since I wasn’t sure if my Japanese Navy could beat that huge US navy, that is why I attacked Alaska and British Columbia. WUS was actually VERY weak (2 inf, 1 mech, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 bomber.) My land force could have easily took them out, but I was unsure about the naval battle. As it turns out, all 3 were successful. The two invasions were won with very few casualties (I think just 2 inf in each) and I won the naval battle too with 1 carrier w/ 1 fighter and 1 tac, 2 wounded BBs and 2 CAs surviving. So, I SHOULD have taken the chance and hit WUS this time.
USA 4: Purchased 10 inf for WUS and several planes for EUS. Took everything from EUS plus bomber on WUS against Germans in CUS. The Germans were crushed. (Remember, the US managed to have 6 tanks plus men, art and fighters on Washington.
UK 4: Tries again to put DDs in water. having trouble affording much due to the convoy raiding. Goodnews in Africa. Last Italian units surrounded and smashed. No more Axis in Africa.
Italy 4: Sends ships from SZ 101 back toward home. Mostly building tanks and mechs to help support Germans on eastern front.
REST OF GAME next post.
knp,
Awesome posts. I have a very high urge to comment, but I must with hold in case you are currently playing this game. Also, from the sounds of it, the French really, really threw a wrench in how strongly the Germans can come to North America. Still, the look on the US players face when they realized what the Germans and Japanese were doing in conjunction must have been great!
Sorry this is taking so long, but this should be about it. In round 5, Germany was done with America and headed home. Having no luck putting DDs in the water to kill the subs, UK started making planes. When the German BB, CA and 7 transports got close to Europe, they were surprised by 4 British fighters and due to extremely bad luck with the dice, didn’t even get one hit and were sunk by the Brits, along with the 7 transports. Hard blow to Germany. They started concentrating on Russia. Russia managed to take Norway and sneakily bought a transport and placed it with the BB and SS in SZ 117. Germany wondered about it at first but when Russia left it there for a round, the German player forgot about it. Then Russia moved a couple of troops over to a very ill-defended W Germany and downgraded their IC. Germany promptly crushed the small Russian force with troops from France and Denmark (which he left empty) but the damage was done. Next round, Russia took a tank that was sitting on Norway and took Denmark.
So, troops from W Germany went in and killed the tank, closing off the Danish straights again. They also sent the fighter and tac from the carrier, which was sunk earlier by the Brits (The German player knew it was a matter of time before the growing Royal navy and RAF got the carrier, so they took off the planes and let it float around the Atlantic until they did get it. he didn’t want to lose the planes too), along with the strat bomber after that Russian BB. Well, they killed it plus the Transport (not the sub of course because no German DD) but at a high cost. That BB took out both the fighter and tac. Well, Germany pushed well into Russia and was close to grabbing Moscow with sizeable Italian help. However, some aggressive Russian playing and England getting stronger and actually landing in Europe put a stop to the Axis advance. Germany had to commit more and more resources to fighting the Brits who just kept coming back stronger until they eventually could not be knocked back off. As a result, their offensive in the east sputtered out. Italy couldn’t take on Russia alone, although they actually came close with one last armor push. After that, Russia started getting stronger and retaking territory.
Meanwhile, Japan did attack WUS on round 5, but it was too little too late. The US had already taken back CUS so Japan had no buffer. Also, with the 10 extra guys put on WUS, that battle really drained the Jap forces so they didn’t have much left to occupy with. I tried building a minor on Alaska to pump out units there, but the US rebuilt their major in CUS and just kept coming with more and more tanks. By the end of round 7, the Japanese adventure in America was pretty much over. I sent my two BBs to Hawaii to get repaired. Then the US sent a ton of planes over and sank my carrier and both cruisers. When my transports got back to Japan, the Russians had taken Korea so it was Allied now and some dang British planes came up and sank all 13 transports, plus a CA and DD and 1 scrambled fighter. China had a wall of men and artillery all along the coast. Now it was the US who was building warships first, then lots of loaded transports. My air force was crushed, my navy sunk and I was making about 23 IPCs per round. COmpared to the 75-80 that US started getting, forget about it. USA invaded Japan and took it round 10. By round 12, there wasn’t a single Japanese unit or territory left. Berlin and Rome also fell Round 12 and both the Germans and Italians were totally cleaned up Round 13.
So, while I may have made a couple of wrong decisions, and had some overall bad luck with the Axis, especially with France, this Kill America First pland just didn’t work for me. I’m not saying it couldn’t work, it just didn’t work this time. Plus, in our group, the same person usually plays USA and I don’t think he will fall for it again.
knp,
Awesome posts. I have a very high urge to comment, but I must with hold in case you are currently playing this game. Also, from the sounds of it, the French really, really threw a wrench in how strongly the Germans can come to North America. Still, the look on the US players face when they realized what the Germans and Japanese were doing in conjunction must have been great!
Thanks. I thought you might want to hear from someone who actually tried out your strategy. Again, sorry for so many long posts, but I just wanted to try and remember the most important happenings of the game. It is over, we finished it this morning. It took 13 rounds. Yeah, the US player’s face was pretty good when Germany moved that fleet of transports down to Gibraltar. At first he was kind of squinty-eyed, like a suspicious, “working-it-out” expression. Then he looked over at the massive Japanese build up and back at the Germans and Italians in SZ 91 and his eyes got all big. Then on his turn it was a little funnier because he was almost manic trying to see how much stuff he had and where he could put it to protect the capital. He would move a couple of pieces, then look back over at the German fleet, then move a few more his pieces, then look at the Japanese fleet. It was really amusing.
Yeah, I don’t understand how the French got such good dice this time. I mean, yeah they still died but they took A LOT of Germans and Italians with them. This kind of thing has only happened a couple of other times in our games, and both of those times Italy took France on I1 and didn’t have such trouble with the French fleet. Most games, France is, well, relatively easy. I have to think if taking France would have went better and Germany had that extra money Round 2, they could have bought the 9 transports and maybe things would have went a little different. Heck, maybe Germany could have even went right after EUS instead of CUS and “capped” the game right there.
knp,
A few questions and comments in no particular order:
How many transports did Japan bring over to N. America and where did they land exactly?
What did Japan buy on J3? I am hoping that they would be able to buy either more transports, or more likely, planes to send to N. America for a concerted bombing campaign.
What did UK Pacific and ANZAC do when Japan went against the US so early?
The reason for my planned J3 attack (in my mind at least) is that, while the US complexes are upgraded for the US purchase on US 3, that would be the only time they collect their continental bonus. On US 4, they would be unable to retake W. US and therefore not be an all consuming juggernaught. Also, landing on J3 in British Columbia is designed so that C. US and W. US fall on G4 (C. US) and J4 (W. US) respectively. Some more on this….on US 3, seeing what can really happen, they could buy an airbase for C. US so six planes could be scrambled in defense of sz 101. That is why I would seriously consider attacking the US Pacific fleet on J3 if a bunch of carriers had fighters on them. If you had a reasonable chance of winning, you could destroy those US planes before they have a chance to be used in defense of E. US or sz 101.
More on J3 pros (I’m not trying to be overbearing, just to lay out why I think it is good to try in this strategy)…on J4, your entire air force with bombers could land in British Columbia and starting on J5 you could strategic bomb E. US.
As long as I can keep my capitals, I would be willing to sell out everything else to bring maximum pressure against the US to see if it could fall first. (It’s worth a try at least once. Right?)
Something else to keep in mind, you can try this again up to the G3 turn. That is when you have to commit to this or not. If the US, knowing this is possible now, builds in the E. US or simply builds ground units, you can still do Sealion with Germany if it is not looking favorable to the Axis. Then, instead of landing in N. America on J3, you could take Hawaii. J4, move to and take Queensland. J5, capture New South Wales and a whole lot of other stuff with all the Japanese transports you have. I don’t know that this would be a winning strategy, but it would give you a chance to look and see how your opponent responds KNOWING that Kill America First is a possibility.
No need to apologize for the length of your posts. That was exactly the information I was hoping someone would post.
If Germany gets E. USA/C. USA they’re getting an extra 32 IPC a round, pushing Russia out shouldn’t be overly difficult, even if they collect the NOs for Norway, Poland, Hungary, S. Germany and Romania for 3 rounds.
Let’s see if I can remember. I think Japan had about 13 transports. One of those had 1 inf and 1 AA gun. It landed in BC on the NCM. As for the other 12, Half landed on British Columbia and half on Alaska. Also, the very first transport, the one that went with the major fleet of warships, it had 1 inf + 1 tank and ended up taking Hawaii.
On J3, Japan did buy a couple of transports plus an extra bomber. They used the transports to take Midway and Wake to get the 5 of 7 bonus.
UK Pacific and ANZAC started having some fun at Japan’s expense. They declared war on either turn 2 or 3, UK took Siam and Hainan, ANZAC took Formosa. I had to keep planes on Japan around to make sure UK and ANZAC warships didn’t get too close to my transports.
I understand your thinking on landing in N America on J3. It was just our feeling that since US goes right after Japan, if they got their Major ICs then on G4, Germany simply wouldn’t be able to take either EUS or CUS. Of course, this is also due to the absolutely miserable handling of France by Germany. They really should have taken France G1 and had the huge money to buy more transports for a decent invasion force. That and Japan’s decision to wait until J4, thus taking WUS on J5, led to the downfall of this plan.
Sometimes we switch around and play different countries so maybe this plan will work on a different US player. Maybe after 2 or 3 more games, we might try it again. Sometimes it can be a while between games and whomever plays the US then might have forgotten this trick.
They get their majors yes, but they can’t spend their full income before Germany goes again, they can only collect it.
America will have 3 to 4 rounds to build, but do they have the cash to build enough? Film at eleven.
We always pull the round flags out of a cup, It’s not to often that one person plays one country time after time. It does happen once in a while that you might pull the same one game after game but usually your opponents are different. With the ALPHA+2, I pulled Japan 4 times in a row. and one of the regulars has played U.K. alot
9 out of 10 games we have 5 at the table
Try a Naval base in Iceland. A bit expensive to set up but you then have the option to keep going with Sealion or you can make it to EUS or somewhere in Canada.
You can reach at the same interesting territories (and more) from SZ 91 assuming you hold Gibraltar, so I don’t really think this has any merit.
knp7765 @
Interesting game report, but I don’t think we should evaluate this strategy based on a scenario where the invasion of France failed.
What about UK support to the US? Could that mess with the odds? I mean once the Germans land in C.US the UK should realize that they are off the hook. They could pump out quite a few units (tanks?) in Canada and send planes from the UK.
Should the Germans divert rosources to take out Quebec early to prevent this?
knp7765 @
Interesting game report, but I don’t think we should evaluate this strategy based on a scenario where the invasion of France failed.What about UK support to the US? Could that mess with the odds? I mean once the Germans land in C.US the UK should realize that they are off the hook. They could pump out quite a few units (tanks?) in Canada and send planes from the UK.
Should the Germans divert rosources to take out Quebec early to prevent this?
I think taking Quebec before the USA would trigger a massive and quick defensive build by USA. Better to take them more by surprised if possible. The best would be if you had enough troops to survive the UK Canadian build, which should be plausible if the move is a surprise. Then London should be stocked with infantry (KAF will look like Sealion) and not much additional in Canada.
I’m working on a plan for KAF as well, which will involve taking Gilbrata early and then a joint German/Italian invasion fleet should be able to hit East USA. The question is whether UK/USA thinks Germany will move in force to Africa/Med or identify the threat to the US.
knp7765 @
Interesting game report, but I don’t think we should evaluate this strategy based on a scenario where the invasion of France failed.What about UK support to the US? Could that mess with the odds? I mean once the Germans land in C.US the UK should realize that they are off the hook. They could pump out quite a few units (tanks?) in Canada and send planes from the UK.
Should the Germans divert rosources to take out Quebec early to prevent this?
Yeah, I agree about the France part. This scenario would have obviously went a lot better if Germany, and then Italy, hadn’t failed in taking France round 1. I hope to try this again sometime in the future when hopefully our USA player has perhaps forgotten.
About UK support; they did try building a few units in Quebec and moved everything they had to British Columbia due to the massive Japanese buildup in the Pacific. However, for the first 2 rounds, they were scared of Sealion so did all their building right on London. When the German fleet went to SZ 91 turn 3, both the US and UK players realized Germany was trying something new. UK did build a few more units in Quebec to help out the US, but even with the US in such trouble, UK was pretty busy trying to get destroyers in the water to get rid of the German subs which were convoy raiding UK like crazy. Plus, they put a couple of tanks in South Africa to deal with the Italians from Central Africa.
