Why were there only 3 play-test games for Global?

[calvinhobbesliker]

@MaherC:

for 180$ combined cost, the game should be finished.  missing tac bombers, bad starting setups, oceans that are 2 different colors, misprinted maps (names, the way sz’s connect to land)

The game board is 72" x 32"….FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN WE GET BIGGER SPACES IN EUROPE?    I get that africa is a bigger continent, I do.  But in terms of THIS GAME you aren’t going to see huge battles in SW africa…but there are spots in Eurasia where you can’t fit more than 2 infantry…

Dude, they fixed the tac bombers problem in P40, and it’s not a problem in E40. They learned from their mistakes to make a better E40 and G40.

The only place in Eurasia unable to fit more than 2 inf would be Bessarabia.

[MaherC]

@calvinhobbesliker:

Just because 1 game of theirs is broken doesn’t mean that the next ones are morle likely to be broken.

Here, let me break it down for you like this.  0 is balanced.    1 + -1 = 0.

Pacific is 1.  Favoring Axis.   Therefore Europe HAS TO BE -1, Favoring Allied for the GLOBAL game to be = 0.

IF Global is balanced, then E40 cannot be.

Let me also say there are hopefully (for WOTC’s bottom line’s sake) more people out there who BOUGHT 1 or both of these games WHO DO NOT COME TO THESE BOARDS OR LARRY HARRIS’S FANSITE.

So they are boned.   Playing w/a bad setup for Pac40.   Soured on buying E40.    Do you understand why this game should not made it out of QA?  This isn’t software where you can download an update.   PEOPLE ARE SAYING IPC VALUES MIGHT BE CHANGED!  Are you kiddng me?   Map corrections?   They going to send us out stickers to put over them?

[calvinhobbesliker]

@MaherC:

@calvinhobbesliker:

Just because 1 game of theirs is broken doesn’t mean that the next ones are morle likely to be broken.

Here, let me break it down for you like this.  0 is balanced.    1 + -1 = 0.

Pacific is 1.  Favoring Axis.  Therefore Europe HAS TO BE -1, Favoring Allied for the GLOBAL game to be = 0.

IF Global is balanced, then E40 cannot be.

Let me also say there are hopefully (for WOTC’s bottom line’s sake) more people out there who BOUGHT 1 or both of these games WHO DO NOT COME TO THESE BOARDS OR LARRY HARRIS’S FANSITE.

So they are boned.  Playing w/a bad setup for Pac40.  Soured on buying E40.    Do you understand why this game should not made it out of QA?  This isn’t software where you can download an update.  PEOPLE ARE SAYING IPC VALUES MIGHT BE CHANGED!  Are you kiddng me?  Map corrections?  They going to send us out stickers to put over them?

There is more to Global than the sum of E40 and P40. Global has 18 extra Russian inf and 9 extra Russian ipcs that don’t exist in Europe. Global has less NO’s and different NO’s. You can’t predict the balance of G40 by adding the balances of E40 and P40

[MaherC]

@calvinhobbesliker:

Dude, they fixed the tac bombers problem in P40, and it’s not a problem in E40. They learned from their mistakes to make a better E40 and G40.

The only place in Eurasia unable to fit more than 2 inf would be Bessarabia.

They fixed it by making you call in for more.  Again, you had to be AWARE of the problem and for the record I was one of those people who called them 20+ times COMPLAINING about it to get that oil that all of us squeaky wheels needed.  Novice/New players are screwed.

SE Europe has some small areas too.    And yeah, silly me thinking that you might want some ROOM to place units on the USSR/GER border! :)

Let me be clear.   I LOVE AXIS AND ALLIES.   I don’t love what they have done/are doing to the franchise.   They rushed Pac40.   They didn’t learn for Europe/Global.

Pac40 was broken and released.  They have to release a broken Europe to make Global balanced.

[MaherC]

Done arguing.  I’ll sit back for a month and watch everyone realize the games aren’t balanced.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@MaherC:

@calvinhobbesliker:

Dude, they fixed the tac bombers problem in P40, and it’s not a problem in E40. They learned from their mistakes to make a better E40 and G40.

The only place in Eurasia unable to fit more than 2 inf would be Bessarabia.

They fixed it by making you call in for more.  Again, you had to be AWARE of the problem and for the record I was one of those people who called them 20+ times COMPLAINING about it to get that oil that all of us squeaky wheels needed.  Novice/New players are screwed.

SE Europe has some small areas too.    And yeah, silly me thinking that you might want some ROOM to place units on the USSR/GER border! :)

Let me be clear.  I LOVE AXIS AND ALLIES.  I don’t love what they have done/are doing to the franchise.  They rushed Pac40.  They didn’t learn for Europe/Global.

Pac40 was broken and released.  They have to release a broken Europe to make Global balanced.

I guess you didn’t read my argument about the 18 inf and 9 ipcs.

Only Bulgaria and Greece are small, and they’re not even on the Russian border

[Raeder]

@MaherC:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@MaherC:

after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.   that goes double for pacific.

Yes, because 1 game determines whether it’s broken

You’re of course right.  Wait, no.  After 1 game of Pacific I was on here getting DESTROYED by all of the fanboys for my UNREASONABLE thought that the game was unbalanced, and a J1 attack is unstoppable….go ahead, read through the pac40 forums, I’ll wait…

I’ve actually played the game MORE than once, thanks for reading that I “played it” and assumed I meant once.

Also, I have a board at home that is setup and used only for strat.  While a game is being “played” strats are being discussed by members of the group on that board.    I don’t need to stub my toe 40 times to realize it hurts.  I don’t need to play global for 6 months to know that if EUROPE isn’t a massively allied game, that GLOBAL will not be balanced.   Oh right, we’re going to wait for PAC40 adjustments to balance things out…MONTHS after release.

You don’t need to stub your toe 40 times to realize it hurts, but you’ll have to play 40+ games of AAG before you can say there are definately no counters to a specific strategy, that may, at first glance, appear to break the game.

[Krieghund]

@MaherC:

Here, let me break it down for you like this.  0 is balanced.    1 + -1 = 0.

Pacific is 1.  Favoring Axis.   Therefore Europe HAS TO BE -1, Favoring Allied for the GLOBAL game to be = 0.

IF Global is balanced, then E40 cannot be.

This is not necessarily true.  The problem with AAP40 is an overpowered J1 attack.  Such an attack will bring the US into the war immediately, so I doubt you’ll see it much in the global game.  It would be too costly for Germany and Italy.

@MaherC:

PEOPLE ARE SAYING IPC VALUES MIGHT BE CHANGED!  Are you kiddng me?   Map corrections?   They going to send us out stickers to put over them?

I have never heard this rumor.  At any rate, it is untrue.

[MaherC]

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@MaherC:

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.

Big deal. it’s worth 0 so usually no units will go there. Besides, I fit a stack of inf, art, mech, tanks, and 3 planes in there

[MaherC]

Krieg:  I want you know that I consider you a fountain of valuable information, and I am grateful for your dedication to this game.

I’m sure you can’t answer this for whatever NDA linked reason, but I would like to know if playtesters were allowed to look at the map for hours or days BEFORE being locked in a room and told “PLAY!”

[MaherC]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@MaherC:

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.   DONE.

Big deal. it’s worth 0 so usually no units will go there. Besides, I fit a stack of inf, art, mech, tanks, and 3 planes in there

Wow.  No units go there.  Ok.  Don’t take this the wrong way but I am serious when I say I am no longer responding to anything you say on this subject.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@MaherC:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@MaherC:

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.

Big deal. it’s worth 0 so usually no units will go there. Besides, I fit a stack of inf, art, mech, tanks, and 3 planes in there

Wow.  No units go there.  Ok.  Don’t take this the wrong way but I am serious when I say I am no longer responding to anything you say on this subject.

I was exaggerating. But, let’s assume that is is a place where stacks are placed. i was able to put a large stack into it. Use the chips

[MaherC]

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.  when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@MaherC:

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.  when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

So since I’m not 18 yet, I am not allowed to have an opinion on the quality of the game?

[Latro]

@MaherC:

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.   when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

You’re aware that his posts actually make more sense than yours, right?

:roll:

(PS No, I don’t agree with everything he says … but at least he doesn’t SHOUT as much and tends to use more than one word in a sentence.)

[MaherC]

So, those of us who have global have spent ~$180 to become playtesters?  Super.

These snafus have soured many people I know to the AA franchise.  I know people who did not buy E40 after feeling cheated on P40.  People who have played AA for 20 years.  There are also people out there who are playing an unbalanced P40 who have no idea about the setup changes, or would even think to contact a manufacturer for an updated rulebook and missing pieces (when all the pieces in the rulebook shipped with the game are present) and are being turned off to buying another AA game (Like many who bought DDAY/GUADAL felt).

As for turning our gripes into grapes that will make the sweet wine of AA to wash away all our whine…that’s hard to do with all the LH fanboys out there defending their demigod as if he can never be wrong.  Pac40? Bad.  Blame Hasbro/WOTC or whoever.  Point is, it should not take 6 months to fix Pac40.  These games should be BALANCED AS STAND ALONE GAMES.  They are not.

[jeffdestroyer]

It should not only posted on their site for download by the consumer but could also be sent out to those who request a copy similarly to what they did for the tac bombers/battle board……I agree!

If I get a new rulebook after all of this which includes the FAQ and correct setups, then it will be worth it.

[Darkness]

I agree with JeffDestroyer, and to a minor degree MaherC.

I personally payed an enormous amount of money for this game (as I had a love of the MB version as a kid) with an assumption that the game would be relatively balanced.  Quite frankly I’m shocked, offended and enraged at how many people I’ve read coming to the defense of the game creators in these forums.  You should be furious with the creators, not just desperate to create rules to fix the game.

“They’re trying to correct the problems”, they say.  Well, that’s good.  As Jeff said above me, please mail out a corrected setup rulebook.  However, it’s quite clear that we really shelled out our money for an “IOU for one quality board game”.

I refuse to be a part of the playtesting experience on principle alone, as that is not what I intended to purchase.  If this were a free item or an optional add-on, I’d say “fine, I don’t have to use it”.  To those who say “Just use house rules”, if I wanted to do that, there’s very little reason to buy this game.

In the end, I feel duped and punked.  Tricked like a sucker to fancy graphics.  Only after searching the internet to see if other people felt ripped off did I find a site like this.  Strangely, the folks on it are actually TOO dedicated to Axis and Allies to fight the problem, and instead look to create a solution for themselves.

As for me, I’ll tell those that I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

[calvinhobbesliker]

You want Larry gone? He’s one of the best game designers. Unlike most, he actually listens to his customers and makes changes. The errors in Tacs, setup, and Battleboard are not his fault. The lack of balance stems from the J1 attack and J3 India Crush. The J3IC is a nuanced strategy that requires precise moves. Thus, it is difficult to discover even with 50 playtests, as the game has so many options. The J1 attack did not obviously lead to a victory in the beginning. It also requires precise planning and moves.