“…fine. Then EmuGod and I don’t agree on anything. Are you happy? ”
Yes and no. Yes because it goes to prove Nagasaki was a justified target, and no, because I still feel guilt for us having to do it. What difference does it make between the civilians from Hiroshima and the civilians from Nagasaki?
”TM Moses–don’t believe it about German cities! American cities are cleaner (San Francisco anyways). Now, I love Germany with a passion, but facts is facts–you are a lot less likely to be hit by a hot blast of urine-soaked air in the USA than in Germany, depending on where you go (obviously New York vs. Bremerhaven is no contest, but still…)
Just my opinion–no offense intended…”
I don’t know, I’ve been to San Francisco recently and even though they have those neat, green “cleaner-mobiles,” it’s still not much to write home about. Their downtown metropolitan areas may be the best (better than LA and NY I reckon) in US, but the rest of it still has a lot of waste and gum on the streets. Anyways, even I feel like an “outsider” there – my friends and I like to make jokes with the locals saying we’re from LA and we don’t know any better :wink:
BTW: I like Germans/Germany too, but I was left a tad disappointed when I encountered some (even the new arrivals). Lets just say, don’t believe the hype.
@TG:
BTW: I like Germans/Germany too, but I was left a tad disappointed when I encountered some (even the new arrivals). Lets just say, don’t believe the hype.
…please elaborate…! :)
Ozone27
would be interesting to hear what kind of “hype” you are talking about…about germans :)……
i am quite curious
“TM Moses–don’t believe it about German cities! American cities are cleaner (San Francisco anyways). Now, I love Germany with a passion, but facts is facts–you are a lot less likely to be hit by a hot blast of urine-soaked air in the USA than in Germany, depending on where you go (obviously New York vs. Bremerhaven is no contest, but still…)”
Sir Ozone, do not forget Santa Rosa! It is a lovely place! I love the landscape decoration. :D
“I am supposed to get back on friday … but i just received news that Quantas will be on strike that day AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH !!!”
What is a ‘Quantas’ and why would they be on strike?
“There are two germans posting here regularly, and both do not live in germany … that must be irritating”
I like to see people travel. TG needs to get out more for a change! :wink:
“Take 83 Million ppl on the size of about Montana (which has 880 thousand ppl) … recycling (a) saves ressources and energy and (b) reduces pollution. So, my question is: Why does anyone not recycle? It is irresponsible not to”
I agree with you wholeheartedly. You would think people would understand that planets like these do not come a dime or a Deutschmark :) a dozen. I hope people can learn before it is too late :(
“Weisswurst is a yucky bavarian sausage, and you get “the real ones” only in southern germany. Otherwise try a local “Oktoberfest”.”
That is too bad. Does Germany have any good vegetarian dishes you have tried?
PS: Thank you for answering my questions!!! Hamburg now and forever! :D
@TM:
Sir Ozone, do not forget Santa Rosa! It is a lovely place! I love the landscape decoration. :D
What is a ‘Quantas’ and why would they be on strike?
Thanks. Though have you been to S.R. recently? Seen the giant concrete hand that now blights our downtown–as well as the recently-built 3D Charlie Brown statue (that theoretically honors Charles Schultz)-- :cry: creepy! Oh well maybe you can see the beauty that I miss…
Sonoma County does rule though… :D
BTW Qantas (no ‘u’) is Australia’s national airline.
Also BTW–no more Deutschmarks–Euros! :lol:
Ozone27
@Ozone:
Thanks. Though have you been to S.R. recently? Seen the giant concrete hand that now blights our downtown–as well as the recently-built 3D Charlie Brown statue (that theoretically honors Charles Schultz)-- creepy! Oh well maybe you can see the beauty that I miss…
Well, I can tell you a giant concrete hand does exactly fit in with the SR motif. But I do say a 3D statue of Charlie Brown sure is classy. I can still remember the good ‘ol days of comics – not the horribly spliced Sunday Comic strips we have today. There use to be a time where comics consisted of more than two strips – ahhh… those were the days. :roll:
Sonoma County does rule though…
I don’t know. I think your neck of the woods is better.
Also BTW–no more Deutschmarks–Euros!
Pleazzz… no real men use “Euros.” Next time I go to Europe, I’ll be sure to stock up on that nation’s currency, not some ugly looking Euros. It’s almost as worst as monopoly/Canadian money!
@”F_alk”:
would be interesting to hear what kind of “hype” you are talking about…about germans ……
Sure, we can use a good story now and then. Anyways, I remember way back at the beginning-middle of the school year, we had recently received some Germans (foreign exchange students I reckon). I think it was five, nice looking people (two or so being of my grade level). Now typically, I naturally saw the German as a threat to the school balance of power. You hear all these fanciful stories on how the Germans are the best… oh about the best at EVERYTHING. What I expected was for the German to take over the school and just excel academically. After all – we were all a bunch of California educated students (yes, the worst in the world), and I expected them to just rape us on test and study habits. However, the strangest thing happened… These Germans weren’t that smart at all!
Well, let me rephrase that. The Germans were for all intensive purposes quite average. And what does being average in California mean compared to the rest of the world? Janitorial position, that’s what! Of course, I was willing to let a few things slide. They didn’t make any honor English courses, perfectly legit considering English wasn’t their primary language. But I will say their English was actually quite good. There was still a touch of German accent (depending on each student), but beyond that, spoken very well. However, the two subjects that I will NOT slide were math and science – something that Germans single handedly wrote the book on (with a few tips from the Canadians of course :wink:). Now I consider myself to be an average student – nothing spectacular, just the simple old soldier I am. However, even then I saw myself besting the Germans on just about every test, quiz, and assignment we took. I was shocked! Here I thought the Germans were going to make me look bad, when in fact, it was the other way around!
Of course, that wasn’t the only thing. Now, figuring that US math and science might be different from German math and science, I supposed I could let that slide. However, then there’s these huge stories of “German efficiency,” “German discipline,” and stuff like that (of course, nothing beats Yankee Ingenuity 8)). Now naturally seeing how Mercedes is a Germany car company, I would agree with this. Once again, I was dead wrong! These Germans I knew were not machines, but for all intensive purposes, slackers. I didn’t know what their study habits were at home, but at school, it was like “why do it today, when I can put it off until tomorrow.” They had become, like me (well usually at school I preoccupied with other "things”). In fact our, math teacher (who I will refer to as Dr. No), yelled at them several times. I’m serious, Dr. No would be like, “Wake up and get with the program! Your parents didn’t send you here for daycare! Either shape, get out! Blahblahblahbalah…” In fact, one of the Germans (a guy) dropped out of Dr. No’s class eventually. What’s up with that?
As for German discipline, about last year, we had a German history teacher. Now normally I was expecting one of those mean, strict teachers, something along of the lines of Dr. No. Instead this teacher, was more concerned about drinking coffee and telling stories about “back in my day… blahblahblahblah…” The schedule in his class was a 15-minute lecture about history (which would usually turn into a 30-minute history of the antics in his life), go over the homework (surprisingly, very light), assign homework, and for the rest of the period – fun time (well except during fun time, he would talk about how Clinton was such a bad president and of his country, Germany. What’s up with this?
Anyways, moral of the story: even “good racism” (for lack of better word), can be bad.
[quote="TG Moses VI
Also BTW–no more Deutschmarks–Euros!
Pleazzz… no real men use “Euros.” Next time I go to Europe, I’ll be sure to stock up on that nation’s currency, not some ugly looking Euros. It’s almost as worst as monopoly/Canadian money!
Ahem. I think almost every money is more aesthetically pleasing (and less confusing) than American money. Also Euro’s are beautiful. And they vary depending on the country they’re from.
WRT monopoly/Canadian money - just b/c they have the same value does not mean that our money is not in most ways more “attractive” then American money. I also understand that the US is looking into 1$ and 2$ coins - Canadian style :)
Ahem. I think almost every money is more aesthetically pleasing (and less confusing) than American money. Also Euro’s are beautiful. And they vary depending on the country they’re from.
WRT monopoly/Canadian money - just b/c they have the same value does not mean that our money is not in most ways more “attractive” then American money. I also understand that the US is looking into 1$ and 2$ coins - Canadian style
Bah-humbug! I couldn’t disagree with you more! First of all, this new American “money” (well they’re been around since 1995-1996) is a disgrace to the Washington Mint. I have never seen anything so ugly in my life. Aesthetically pleasing? Yeah, maybe to someone without any real taste :x . I remember the good old days, where American money was a intricately designed work of art. It wasn’t the “simplified” versions we have today so old people read it better. Today’s portraits are too big, the text too big, and the border designs too small! Compare an America 1 or 2 dollar bill to a 5, 10, or 20, and you can tell right away that old American money is 10x better. As for the Euro’s, I don’t like them. They look like something printed on toilet paper. The Dutchmark was 10x better looking. :)
As for the Canadian money comment? What is up with you guys? Compared to your old money, the Canadian bills are terrible looking. When I first saw your new bills, I thought it was designed by the same person who did the Monopoly money. I would rather use the IPCs from Axis and Allies :wink:. Anyways, at least you still have your good, Victorian coins. Now those were something! Not the cheap paper money you guys have today.
@cystic:
[quote="TG Moses VI
Also BTW–no more Deutschmarks–Euros!
Pleazzz… no real men use “Euros.” Next time I go to Europe, I’ll be sure to stock up on that nation’s currency, not some ugly looking Euros. It’s almost as worst as monopoly/Canadian money!
Ahem. I think almost every money is more aesthetically pleasing (and less confusing) than American money. Also Euro’s are beautiful. And they vary depending on the country they’re from.
WRT monopoly/Canadian money - just b/c they have the same value does not mean that our money is not in most ways more “attractive” then American money. I also understand that the US is looking into 1$ and 2$ coins - Canadian style :)
Canadian money looks fine……no wait I’ve got an idea, lets make all our money the color green. That way there is no possible way to mix up the denominations and it will illustrate are vivid imaginations.
@Mr:
@cystic:
[quote="TG Moses VI
Also BTW–no more Deutschmarks–Euros!
Pleazzz… no real men use “Euros.” Next time I go to Europe, I’ll be sure to stock up on that nation’s currency, not some ugly looking Euros. It’s almost as worst as monopoly/Canadian money!
Ahem. I think almost every money is more aesthetically pleasing (and less confusing) than American money. Also Euro’s are beautiful. And they vary depending on the country they’re from.
WRT monopoly/Canadian money - just b/c they have the same value does not mean that our money is not in most ways more “attractive” then American money. I also understand that the US is looking into 1$ and 2$ coins - Canadian style :)
Canadian money looks fine……no wait I’ve got an idea, lets make all our money the color green. That way there is no possible way to mix up the denominations and it will illustrate are vivid imaginations.
exactly!
:lol: about the green money :lol: !
About $1/$2 coins–BADBADBAD IDEA! BOOO! Before the Euro, everything in Germany up to (and including) 5 DM were coins. When me and my buddies went in '95, the mark was about at its strongest–being pretty close in value to $1 (US). Now, unless you were very resourceful (and we were not) and good with your math (which we also were not) by the end of the day you’d be walking around w/ like 10 lbs. of coins, and looking like you were wearing jodhpurs (hmmmmm :wink: )!
TG: Santa Rosa’s IN Sonoma County, silly!–I just think the countryside around here is better…but I appreciate you & TM’s kind words for our lovely city…
About the Germans–first of all, everyone’s different and as you know the “efficient, clever German” is just as much a stereotype as the “dumb American”. I’m sure you agree…
But interestingly, my German friends also spent a year each as exchange students and also did horribly! One is now majoring in History at Jena University, the other…well, he’s studying Geography, but he mainly surfs a lot. Regardless, how do you explain the poor performance in US school?
Well, partly its that our schools aren’t quite THAT bad–you can indeed skate by (as I did), but to excel does require some work. Another reason certainly is the handicap of being a foreigner and having to learn all the new ways & rules & customs while trying to learn as well.
But I think the main reason is that, regardless of what it’s supposed to be, being an exchange student is tantamount to just being on vacation in a foreign country for a year–in some cases the academic year doesn’t even COUNT toward your average! In this situation, and considering all the other factors, I’d say you’d have to be pretty boring to be spending all your time studying when you’re a High School student away from home for maybe the first time in your life in a foreign country with no one to keep an eye on you! :o Just my opinion!
Also BTW, my German Instructor at college was a polite lady from Bavaria who in between language lessons liked to tell the students how the Turkish immigrants flooding into Germany were ruining the economy by having 20 kids and sucking off the state. So see, some Germans are just idiots…same as everybody, I guess…
I’m sure you know all this stuff, but thought I’d posit some ideas…
Ozone27
Moses,
just as Ozone said:
Having “one year off” doesn’t bring out the discipline part, especially when you know in advance, that this year does not bring anything for your school career :)….
But you are right: we (germans) are just like all ppl. Maybe, that when there is pressure, we then bring out the stereotypical behaviour. But when we are allowed to slack, we do (germany and australia are AFAIK the ppl most travelling around the globe), and we are good at it :). Efficient at slacking :) …
I consider myself quite lazy … but call it efficient: trying to get things done with least amount of work :D
And of course: It was the Dutch Guilder (sp?) or the Deutsche Mark …
And for Ozone:
I found out that it takes about one year for me to feel “home” after changing my place. That was when moved out from my parents, moved around, and here as well.
The language barrier may be important for some time (depending on your skill in that language), the cultural barrier is more or less strong, depending from where to where you go.
The most important thing is:
When you arrive, you know noone. You start with no friends etc.
That is pretty tough (at least for me it was).
And even after a year, i have met less than a handful of ppl where i think they could become “real friends” ( i differ a lot between the different degrees of friendship ).
But, that could all be because i am from northern germany, which are not the most open of all ppl.
And the bavarian teacher:
This is the kind of racism, tha tyou can find way too much in germany. If you meet her again, tell her she should learn proper german, and that bavaria shouldn’t be part of germany at all :) :) :) (bavaria being the state that everyone except the bavarians dislikes :) )
TG: Santa Rosa’s IN Sonoma County, silly!–I just think the countryside around here is better…but I appreciate you & TM’s kind words for our lovely city…
No, as a whole Sonoma Country isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be… like Orange County.
Canadian money looks fine……no wait I’ve got an idea, lets make all our money the color green. That way there is no possible way to mix up the denominations and it will illustrate are vivid imaginations.
I wouldn’t say so. Even from a moneyless communist (in theory, not literally! :wink:), I respect finely crafted notes. Also, I like America’s “greenbacks.” What other color can be so easily related to wealth, power, corruption, greed, influence – everything a capitalist desires? Not so with “color coded” paper money! Yeah, I have a green thumb, and money does grow on trees :)
About the Germans–first of all, everyone’s different and as you know the “efficient, clever German” is just as much a stereotype as the “dumb American”. I’m sure you agree…
Yeah, that’s why I’m trying to prove that other countries have nothing to gain by talking down America’s school systems. Of course the advantage is mine :)
Well, partly its that our schools aren’t quite THAT bad–you can indeed skate by (as I did), but to excel does require some work. Another reason certainly is the handicap of being a foreigner and having to learn all the new ways & rules & customs while trying to learn as well.
Don’t worry, we tried our best to help out the German. But being to other countries “friendly to the US,” in reality the change of customs (except for a few minor ones) wasn’t that difficult.
But I think the main reason is that, regardless of what it’s supposed to be, being an exchange student is tantamount to just being on vacation in a foreign country for a year–in some cases the academic year doesn’t even COUNT toward your average! In this situation, and considering all the other factors, I’d say you’d have to be pretty boring to be spending all your time studying when you’re a High School student away from home for maybe the first time in your life in a foreign country with no one to keep an eye on you! Just my opinion!
Yeah, I guess you are right. However, I am always one to make a favorable impression in person whenever I travel to a new place. Well except in Vegas, where I waltz around like I own the place. Ahhhh… the good old days. Still, as for the Germans that weren’t foreign exchange students, they might’ve become too Americanized.
Also BTW, my German Instructor at college was a polite lady from Bavaria who in between language lessons liked to tell the students how the Turkish immigrants flooding into Germany were ruining the economy by having 20 kids and sucking off the state. So see, some Germans are just idiots…same as everybody, I guess…
Seriously!? Mine too! My German history teacher would always talk about how the Turkish immigrants were destroying Germany and that in 50 years, Germany will cease to exist to be a state we come to known. At first I thought he had too much coffee (where upon he would sing strange sea chanties in Deutch) or some sort of strange racist, so I’m surprised you had the same problem too! He talked about how bad things have become, and Germany can’t do anything about it because it would make Germany look like they were Nazis. That’s why he says, Germans welcome Jews with open arms into their state. With the Jews taking action, Germany can’t be branded and looked upon with holocaust type sentiments. Very interesting… I like to talk more about this.
just as Ozone said:
Having “one year off” doesn’t bring out the discipline part, especially when you know in advance, that this year does not bring anything for your school career ….
Still what about the Germans that intend to stay? Come on guys, try harder! Show some German pride! :P
But you are right: we (germans) are just like all ppl. Maybe, that when there is pressure, we then bring out the stereotypical behaviour. But when we are allowed to slack, we do (germany and australia are AFAIK the ppl most travelling around the globe), and we are good at it . Efficient at slacking ….
Well I haven’t completely lost faith. Most of the Germans I known are West Germans. So those Eastern Germans – they could be the strict, super smart ones. :) Funny, I don’t see many Australians here.
And the bavarian teacher:
This is the kind of racism, tha tyou can find way too much in germany. If you meet her again, tell her she should learn proper german, and that bavaria shouldn’t be part of germany at all (bavaria being the state that everyone except the bavarians dislikes )
Yeah, what is up with you guys! I had two German teachers (well three, though the third was mixed and very Amercanized) that really talked down the Bavarians (along with the Turks as I mentioned before). Can someone give me the “true” story behind this? As for my history teacher, he talked about how parts of Europe should be “assimilated” into Germany (mainly the ones Germany had to give up in WWI and WWII) since they mainly spoke Deutsche. Darn, I forgot the names. BTW: He wasn’t a Nazi or anything, since he hated Hitler and was a German who actually liked America.
@TG:
Show some German pride! :P
That acually was quite a debate in germany:
Can you be proud of your country?
Can you be proud of something, that you have more or less inherited, or only on what you have done?
(The latter would not allow to be proud of your country)
Funny, I don’t see many Australians here.
That’s because they are native english speakers and you maybe don’t notice them.
Yeah, what is up with you guys! I had two German teachers (well three, though the third was mixed and very Amercanized) that really talked down the Bavarians (along with the Turks as I mentioned before). Can someone give me the “true” story behind this? As for my history teacher, he talked about how parts of Europe should be “assimilated” into Germany (mainly the ones Germany had to give up in WWI and WWII) since they mainly spoke Deutsche. Darn, I forgot the names. BTW: He wasn’t a Nazi or anything, since he hated Hitler and was a German who actually liked America.
Well…. Bavaria for the germans…
is some kind of like Canada for the US :) … or maybe there is a state that is generally made fun of ?
And what kind of teachers do you have?
I have noticed that you become “more german” when you are overseas (well, i did, and ppl i talked to did), but such f*ckheads …
wel, i am a bit relieved that they are not in germany anymore, but exported… bad luck for you, though :).
The assimilation of probably Alsace, parts of the czech republic etc…
THAT is nazi-talk in the sense that it says (implicitly) “germans are better”.
For the turks: the greatest wave of immigrants came from turkey, and the german government and society didn’t give them a lot of possibilities to integrate themselves. So, germany has racial problems, though it’s not balck and white, but turks and germans. Together with the different religion and strength of faith, this has built up to a problem, as the turks started to build up their own communities, and now quite often even 3rd or 4th generation turks (# of gen’s the family ihas been in germany) do not know a word of german when they start primary school !
That is a problem, that we germans slept to long on… and now, as we slowly recognize that we actually need immigration… i hope that our old and “wrong” attitude will change, and we give the turks (and all others) a better chance and warmer welcome!
“That acually was quite a debate in germany:
Can you be proud of your country?
Can you be proud of something, that you have more or less inherited, or only on what you have done?
(The latter would not allow to be proud of your country)”
Yes, but it depends. There is a difference between inheriting you birthright and living up to it. Same difference between a civilian and a citizen.
“That’s because they are native english speakers and you maybe don’t notice them.”
Maybe. Though I predict something much more sinister on part of them… :wink:
”And what kind of teachers do you have?”
Cannot compute. Restate?
“The assimilation of probably Alsace, parts of the czech republic etc….”
Yep, he often talks about how Alsace was stolen by the French. Though he makes it seem other parts want to become one with Germany, but are not permitted to due so because of WWI and WWII. Food for thought.
First of all I don’t want to start presuming too much, because I’m not a German and I’d really like to avoid becoming a “know-it-all-American” type…
But 2 brothers from Deutsch Evern are 2 of my best friends in the whole world, we talk a lot about Germany and America and I have travelled in Germany–these are about my only claims to knowledge about Germany other than a longtime interest in the country (mainly beginning w/ meeting these guys)…
I see Germany’s basic social problem these days–as it is with most other West European countries–is the massive influx of foreigners (one might even include east Germans) that has been going on for a while and is reaching a critical level. You’ve got to understand that most European national states were founded with a (more or less conscious) idea of a national identity based on culture, language & ethnicity. Now HUGE #s (well, not compared to American immigration, but that’s a whole other issue)of foreigners are coming in and Europeans must deal with it mentally–and it is tough. In other words; “Can an ethnic Turk ever really become a ‘German’?” “Can a West African ever really become a ‘Frenchman’?” In the USA, we have our own (mainly racial) issues of this kind, but basically no one (but extremists) doubts whether, say, an Irishman or Latino can ever eventually become fully “American”. It has to do with national identity–in Europe, so often, the “state” and the “culture/language/ethnicity” are one in peoples’ minds.
I may be way off base here, so input by actual Europeans would, I’m sure, be more enlightening. I’m just relating my limited observations.
As far as Bavaria, in some ways I’d see the difference between Bavaria and, say, Niedersachsen is more like the perceived difference between say, Texas & New England. North Germans (especially the old Hanseatic states) see themselves as more reserved socially, but more liberal (“enlightened”? :wink: ) politically, whereas they tend to view Catholic, conservative, Bavaria as retrograde culturally & politically–sometimes a source of embarrassment. Far be it from me to decide one way or another!
Re: German instructors–my teacher was, I think, a fairly reasonable lady who suffered somewhat from the ugly prejudices of her local native culture (which–believe me–is not wholly discouraged even in supposedly “liberal” Northern Cal). Judging from what you’ve said, though, I’d have to agree w/ F_alk that your History instructor is an out-and-out Nazi!!! No one in Germany (without a shaved head & white bootlaces) would DARE publicly advocate something like “union w/ the territories ‘lost’ in WWI/WWII”! That borders on Nazi-type hate speech (and is definitely right-wing propaganda), which is illegal in Germany. Makes me wonder why he came to the US to begin with–you should ask him!
Anyway, these are just my observations.
Ozone27
P.S. TG-- :lol: I’ll let it go this time, but don’t EVER compare Sonoma & Orange counties like that! Did we produce Ronald Reagan? Pete Wilson? The Duke? The Mighty Ducks?;it’s been said that everything bad that ever came from California came from Orange County. :lol: If you are from there, I will exclude you, but I assume by the fact that you put “L.A.” in your profile you are not… :o
@TG:
Seriously!? Mine too! My German history teacher would always talk about how the Turkish immigrants were destroying Germany and that in 50 years, Germany will cease to exist to be a state we come to known. At first I thought he had too much coffee (where upon he would sing strange sea chanties in Deutch) or some sort of strange racist, so I’m surprised you had the same problem too! He talked about how bad things have become, and Germany can’t do anything about it because it would make Germany look like they were Nazis. That’s why he says, Germans welcome Jews with open arms into their state. With the Jews taking action, Germany can’t be branded and looked upon with holocaust type sentiments. Very interesting… I like to talk more about this.
Maybe its just the way you put it but this whole account sounds distinctly creepy to me. “Sea shanties in Deutsch…”? WTF? “Germany can’t do anything about it 'cuz they’d look like Nazis…”? Like what exactly does he have in mind here? “If the Jews (BTW, Germany still has Europe’s lowest per-capita Jewish population; you figure it out) take action, Germany can’t be branded as Nazis…” OK that is just too wierd! What’s with this guy–how old is he? I’ve GOT to know!
Ozone27
Lots of people in the USA have irish root, i really doupt that if an irish family is in the US for 7 generations you would see any major distinction between him and any other american
