That one looks great too! Thank you again for sharing these great resources!
Favourite axis openings
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One reason Funcioneta gave for attacking is actually a reason that I don’t attack.
That is, that the units are irreplaceable. My thinking is that they won’t be reinforced anytime soon, other than with bombers (UK and even USA potentially). So they’re not going anywhere. You can choose a more advantageous time to attack, later.Well, they can go to many places:
- They can escape to India/Persia and join with Gurkas (to delay Japan’s expansion)
- They could stack trj and prevent italian NO (yes, you can take Gibraltar, but that means less units to Africa or a secure killing of italian navy if UK buys 3 bombers as someone said
- They could escape to Sudan to defend Africa. Probably this approach is the best since it makes SAF IC a option and not a must
- They could escape to China (after losing soviet NO one round unless only the tank is sent to there), specially in case of Japan not doing the correct move (killing chinese corpse J1). Allies could have a hope of making China counting (and maybe even winning) if axis makes the double failure: not attacking Egypt, not killing China J1
So you can’t choose the time to attack with germans if you fail doing so G1 because UK will retreat their units until the best moment to counter since Germany left the initiative in Africa/Middle East theater. They could even retreat to Caucasus if really needed, and Desert Rats are 5 units
You seem think Desert Rats are a minor nuisance, but they can delay axis advance for rounds, specially in Africa. Same applies for China: there is not bigger target for Japan that those 5 units, specially the fighter. I doubt you leave alive all of them, but even letting Yunnan alive is a big difference. Assuming Japan’s attack go well, after China 1 we have:
- Attack and take the 4 chinese territories -> China has one inf and only one, and that will be the latst they will have in the whole game unless USA manages somehow beat Imperial Navy
- Attack 3 and take territories, skip Yunnan -> China has 3 inf, 1 fig after China 1. In China 2 they will probably buy at least one more inf even if soviets (or Desert Rats) don’t come to the rescue. That’s a wall of 5 units before adding any soviet reinforce. They can stack Chinghai for ages or even make some rogue attack if jap tanks get uncared
What do you skip attacking 4 chinese territories? USA’s BB? That can be replaced and is a riskier attack than chinese ones. Soviet stack at Buryatia? That bait will cost Japan too much and probably will leave even more chinamen alive. Some other? No: z35 and Pearl harbour can be done safely. Take into account you are killing one enemy power even before they do their first turn without risking nothing important in exchange. I know they are crappy due poor design and ilogical ahistorical rules, but as allies, I prefer having them alive than dead, specially if we are talking about round 1
However, this debate is interesting anyway
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Well, I respectfully disagree.
I know your points are popular and are conventional wisdom, but I’ve begun to question this conventional wisdom. A couple of Chinese infantry don’t scare me. They don’t all need to be killed in round one. They are DEFINITELY not going anwhere.
I’m well aware there are options for the UK forces in Egypt to run around. However, in '41 there aren’t fighters starting in India and Australia, so again, I disagree that they are a priority G1.
You know, I was thinking about the '42 scenario as far as other things the Jap fighterrs need to do. In '41 the Japanese scenario is an absolute joke. They can do whatever they want. No fighter in Australia, no carrier and fighter by India - just a BB at Pearl. Japan can do whatever they dang well please in '41. With 9 fighters to start and major bombardment capabilities, China is just a whipping boy that can be hammered at any time - round 1, round 2, whatever.
Wanna game, Funcioneta? It’s very difficult to describe the merits of a strategy when there are a lot of other things going on. Sure, it sounds like a great idea to hammer China and Egypt, and ignoring both is what you call a “double failure” :lol:
But these actions do have opportunity costs.
I just started a 1941 game as Axis, and I decided to attack Egypt G1. I got lucky, and won it with 2 armor and the bomber. Sure, it’s sweet when it works. But it depends on my mood what I want to do G1 1941. -
So you can’t choose the time to attack with germans if you fail doing so G1 because UK will retreat their units until the best moment to counter since Germany left the initiative in Africa/Middle East theater. They could even retreat to Caucasus if really needed, and Desert Rats are 5 units
Nope, must of my opponents leave it there in Egypt, reinforcing with TrJ (giving that to the Italians along with NO), because it goes toward UK and Italy NO’s, I suppose. Maybe you are superior to my average opponents, I don’t know.
You seem think Desert Rats are a minor nuisance
Nope - just don’t always want to make a risky attack and commit the German Bomber down there.
What do you skip attacking 4 chinese territories? USA’s BB? That can be replaced and is a riskier attack than chinese ones.
However, this debate is interesting anyway
What is with this idea of whether something can be replaced or not? Sure, it can be replaced, for 20 big ones! I’m looking at threat levels. Letting one or two Chinese infantry live does not pose much of a threat in future turns.
As far as your, um, interesting idea about taking all the mideast forces up to Chi, you’re abandoning the mideast, giving away Italian NO’s without a fight, it takes several turns to get up there, losing Russian NO’s on the way… I must say, that’s unconventional wisdom, at best.
I’m getting tired of discussing the what if’s. Sounds like you’d be a good opponent. I challenge you to a game. -
I’m getting tired of discussing the what if’s. Sounds like you’d be a good opponent. I challenge you to a game.
Mmmff… I really don’t want more games now (specially AA41 ones) but OK, with these conditions:
- I want play allies
- NOs on
- Techs on
- Dardanelles and interceptors off
Just make the thread and start with Germany at your pleasure. As an option, we can do it a league game to make it count, but I let that for you to decide
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It’s on :wink:
I have a lot of games going now too, so no pressure on you to move timely.
I’m just posting here in case someone following the discussion wants to view the game, I wanted to confirm that there will be a game.
I guess I will forgo the Egypt attack so you can show me the dire consequences of this failure. I might have been thinking of 1942 more with the whole leave the flying tigers alone thing, so not sure if I will be attacking them or not in 1941. I’ll see if I can let them go so I can commit the “double failure” :wink:
I usually play with Dard closed and no new Island complexes, but welcome a chance to play Axis without these “handicaps”. I’ll go set up G1. -
It’s on :wink:
I have a lot of games going now too, so no pressure on you to move timely.
I’m just posting here in case someone following the discussion wants to view the game, I wanted to confirm that there will be a game.
I guess I will forgo the Egypt attack so you can show me the dire consequences of this failure. I might have been thinking of 1942 more with the whole leave the flying tigers alone thing, so not sure if I will be attacking them or not in 1941. I’ll see if I can let them go so I can commit the “double failure” :wink:
I usually play with Dard closed and no new Island complexes, but welcome a chance to play Axis without these “handicaps”. I’ll go set up G1.42 scenario is a diferent animal, but that’s not the matter. I’m not against Dardanelles, but I feel it’s better not using FAQ optionals this time
As for non island complexes: no way, pal, I want Mc Arthur’s HQ in long run (Philippines) :-D
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Heh heh, I’m sure we’ll have a great game.
Just so everyone knows, I got heavy bombers in G1 with 10 IPC’s, so the joke’s on me. I really want to attack Egypt now, but not going to, since that’s kind of the point of this game :lol: -
You should be playing without tech to limit the variables (IMHO)
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Heh heh, I’m sure we’ll have a great game.
Just so everyone knows, I got heavy bombers in G1 with 10 IPC’s, so the joke’s on me. I really want to attack Egypt now, but not going to, since that’s kind of the point of this game :lol:if you spent 10 bucks on tech and got a the right tech, you have to attack egypt. i think spending 10 bucks on tech on G1 an outrageous move by the way - considerably more suspect than Egypt G1
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if you spent 10 bucks on tech and got a the right tech, you have to attack egypt. i think spending 10 bucks on tech on G1 an outrageous move by the way - considerably more suspect than Egypt G1
Nonsense. Even Funcioneta acknowledged that with a naval build, using the heavy bomber on SZ2 was a good move.
10 bucks is far from an outrageous move. This is AA50, where you don’t throw away the money, remember? If I didn’t roll a 6, I’d get a chance the next turn and the next turn until I did.
10 bucks gives you 30.5% chance of a breakthrough.
I play this game for fun, not like some cold, calculating killer who must always make the optimal strategic move. Getting tech is fun. Not to mention the fact that having heavy bombers helps my chances of winning big time.
I don’t understand why people act like tech is such a big gamble or waste of money or whatever. Jeez, it’s not Axis and Allies without tech.
To each his own. I don’t care what you think about spending 10 on tech. I spent 15 with Japan and got improved shipyards, and then I spent 10 with Italy and got nothing. What do you think about that? I think I’m going to win. -
You should be playing without tech to limit the variables (IMHO)
Axis, I understand what you’re saying. This is EXACTLY why I still didn’t attack Egypt G1 even though it was suddenly a much better move.
I deliberately left the flying tigers alone, too. It was kind of the point of the game we’re playing. I challenged Funcioneta because he said not attacking Egypt G1 and Yunnan J1 was a “double failure”.
We both wanted to play tech. Funcioneta suggested it first. You know, a lot of people like us don’t really care to play Axis and Allies without it. I think it’s lame, for example, to know for sure that the enemy’s planes can’t exceed a 4 or 6 move range. In this game, I had to leave units in Germany and Italy that I normally would have moved out toward the front lines, except I had to guard against the possibility of paratroopers.
Tech is not going to ruin the purpose of this game, which was whether it’s a really bad idea to skip Egypt G1 or Yunnan J1. -
if you spent 10 bucks on tech and got a the right tech, you have to attack egypt. i think spending 10 bucks on tech on G1 an outrageous move by the way - considerably more suspect than Egypt G1
You’re making me want to challenge you, too! :lol:
I’ll show you the power of tech! -
You should be playing without tech to limit the variables (IMHO)
And we could play also LL to kill all the fun :-P Anyway, my point was that not Egy and not Yunnan is less powerful than doing both. I’m not saying you are going to lose for not doing them, I say you will have a harder road to victory, and a slighter lesser chance of win, but it’s still a uphill battle for allies
As for the Kriegsmarine buildup, I have seen one ubercrappy player doing it and still winning because there is no way of stopping Japan and you still have to kill Kriegsmarine first to start menacing Germany. I think gamerman is better than that player I’m saying (one I play FTF), so I guess I’ll have even more problems than usually against naval strat
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And yes, he got HBs and IS, but I could get Paratroopers next round with UK, war bounds with USSR or LRA with USA so what? As he said, he spent a total of 35 IPCs of tech, so a result of 2 techs is still in the average. I spent 5 and got none, I don’t see any wrong with tech: I’ll have more units and he will have better units, as should :wink: Not that I’m going to cry for HBs round1: I’ll search the way of countering this
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You should be playing without tech to limit the variables (IMHO)
And we could play also LL to kill all the fun :-P
Haha - Funcioneta, the irony is we strongly agree about some things. I love tech, and agree LL would really kill the fun ;)
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Oh, and by the way, you’re up! Good luck!!!
Agree - no shame in losing with Allies in '41 - jeez, the setup borders on ridiculous (see Japan). -
And yes, he got HBs and IS, but I could get Paratroopers next round with UK, war bounds with USSR or LRA with USA so what? As he said, he spent a total of 35 IPCs of tech, so a result of 2 techs is still in the average. I spent 5 and got none, I don’t see any wrong with tech: I’ll have more units and he will have better units, as should :wink: Not that I’m going to cry for HBs round1: I’ll search the way of countering this
Heeeey…. Gracias, amigo!! You got my back, how about that? Long live tech!
I really appreciate your attitude. So he got heavy bombers, there are ways to deal with that. I’m gonna thoroughly enjoy playing Axis and Allies with you - I hope we can play games sometime beyond this first one. -
As he said, he spent a total of 35 IPCs of tech, so a result of 2 techs is still in the average. I spent 5 and got none, I don’t see any wrong with tech: I’ll have more units and he will have better units, as should :wink:
:-D Correction - I will have better units, and you will BUILD more units, not HAVE more units :evil: :wink:
Yes, I’m a tech fiend. Now that it’s not near the gamble it used to be (get to re-roll every turn) and everyone has more money than previous games (NO’s, more territory), AA50 is the best A&A game so far, partly because it has tons of tech on both sides! But you can’t get it if you don’t buy researchers. I almost always have at least 1 going for nearly every country. You have to give yourself a chance. -
for the record, i am all for tech. i just think 10 IPCs on G1 an extravagance almost certainly sub optimal.
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Yes, I’m a tech fiend. Now that it’s not near the gamble it used to be (get to re-roll every turn)
In my opinion, it is more of a gamble than when compared to revised. You can get techs you dont want, unlike in revised where you roll for specific techs. Nothing like spending 40 bucks on Rd 6 with America to get Heavy Bombers to wipe out Germany.
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