Lets talk Bunkers/Pillboxes

[baron Münchhausen]

If we combine both later suggestions bunker and reinforced defensive position:

for 3 IPC you can have an ART or an INF on an island having DEF 3 and takes 1 hit before losing unit.

If their is 2 INF (or 2 ART, or 1 INF and 1 ART) on a given island, and pay 6 IPC,
this will give 2 units with DEF 3 and be able to soak 2 hits before taking damage.

The advantage is that you don’t have to move any other unit to upgrade a given defensive position:
but 2@3+ 2 hits is quite as powerful as 4@2 (4 INF defending same cost: 2 INF + 6 IPC/2 INF).

Maybe it is still too much and must be limited to 1 Bunker/pillboxes and 1 reinforced position per territory.

What could you say?

[Imperious Leader]

This type of unit should be like a port.

Takes the same damage/rules as Port or Airbase.

Makes any three units with it defend at 4 ( minus damage)

cost could be 6 or 12 ( not sure, but probably 6)

Only one per territory.

[baron Münchhausen]

Hi IL,
where are those rules for airbase or port?
I don’t know them since I play only on 1941 and 1942?
Thanks,

[Imperious Leader]

as per global 1940

[baron Münchhausen]

Makes any three units with it defend at 4 ( minus damage) cost could be 6 or 12 ( not sure, but probably 6)

Only one per territory.

If its limited to one per territory, it will only cost 3.
It boosts and protects only 1 INF or ART (not 3 units) and can be place anywhere either island or inland.
By

Makes any three units with it defend at 4

, do you imply any type such Inf Art and Arm, so its still only one unit that get boosted ?

[Imperious Leader]

Its better not to have a restriction…any 3 ground units @4. The idea is mostly Infantry will be candidates because of cost.

Damage is maxed at 6, first three SBR hits make it unusable.

[baron Münchhausen]

What you suggest seems too powerful in a 1942.2 scenario for example.
I’m thinking about 1 Japan Inf, in Iwo Jima for instance.
It’s not a naval base but the Inf is deeply underground.
How a pillboxes homerule can provide a feeling of this hard won battle?

I’m not used to the airbase rule (I think Iwo Jima was an airbase) but can they provide the capacity to soak 1 hit like BB?

[Imperious Leader]

They can be damaged by SBR 3 hits takes it out, and 6 is the max hits. Player can spend IPC to rebuild

If the area where the base is is captured, the bunker is removed.

Also, if you have less then three units only that many get the boost.

Example: You got just two land units, so potentially you can boost only two to four.

[baron Münchhausen]

What happens in an amphibious assault on those two Inf?
It will take only 2 hits to get ride of them, isn’t it?
Even though they hit twice with their @4, 2 shots by the attackers in the first round (think of a coastal bombardment @4 with a lucky 1 Inf@1) and it is over for them.

[Imperious Leader]

Well they just roll @4. If they are hit and no other units remain, the Bunker is wrecked ( max damage at 6). All the bunker does is boost up to three units @4 ( minus damage).

[baron Münchhausen]

I see,
but it seems from MHPV that the capacity to soak a hit is a better way to recreate the spirit of a month long assault on a fortified ground, like Iwo Jima.

[baron Münchhausen]

I suggested the cost of 2 to obtain a “free hit” that can not reduce the number of defending units to mimmick the presence of further units on a territory.
So a lesser number of soldiers can endure much more in a fortified position than on open ground, like the sand beach of an island.
Inf cost 3, so a “unit” unable to attack nor defend but still counting as one (like an AAA in 1942.2) must be less expensive.

[baron Münchhausen]

@Imperious:

Well they just roll @4. If they are hit and no other units remain, the Bunker is wrecked ( max damage at 6). All the bunker does is boost up to three units @4 ( minus damage).

To be sure to fully understand you’re idea “minus damage”:
if the bunker receives 2 hits by SBR and 2 Inf are within, both are now defending at 3, isn’t?
And if there is a third Inf, it still defends @4?
And two more hits by SBR will give to those 3 Inf: Def 2/2/3?
And finally, a total of 6 hits by SBR, no more bunker: 3 Inf defending as usual, 2/2/2?

[Imperious Leader]

To be sure to fully understand you’re idea, if the bunker receives 2 hits by SBR, if 2 INF are within both are now defending at 3, isn’t?

Yes, but if the bunker gets a 4th hit, only 2 units fire at 4. If a 5th hit, only 1. 6th hit none.

And if there is a third Inf, it still defends @4?

Yes as long as the bunker does not have 4 or more damage points.

And two more hits by SBR will give to those 3 Inf: Def 2/2/3?

4 hits total will allow only 2 units to fire at 4.

And finally, a total of 6 hits by SBR, no more bunker: 3 Inf defending as usual?

yes. and the cost of repair is 1 IPC per damage point, just like global 40 rules.

[baron Münchhausen]

I input this example in a precedent post:

@Baron:

What happens in an amphibious assault on those two Inf?
It will take only 2 hits to get ride of them, isn’t it?
Even though they hit twice with their @4, 2 shots by the attackers in the first round (think of a coastal bombardment @4 with a lucky 1 Inf@1) and it is over for them.

Don’t you find this quite unreal to have a defensive item unable to protect 2 inf against 1?
I’m still thinking of long (hours) and numerous bombardment against japanese pillboxes unable to touch the defenders and taking the marines flatfooted when they arrived on the beach to fall on a heavy fire from the hidden japanese defenders.

[baron Münchhausen]

You say:

"if the bunker gets a 4th hit

by SBR implied

, only 2 units fire at 4. If a 5th hit, only 1. 6th hit none.

"
How does SBR work in this case?

If a bomber rolls a “6”, is it a hit or a miss?
Does it require a 4 or less?
Or is it considered 6 hits, so no more bunker?
Or if 1 bomber gets one hit (dice roll 1 to 4), it means that we need 6 SBR to get ride of this bunker/pillboxes?

[baron Münchhausen]

I suppose that pillboxes (acting like airbase) are under a SBR,
is the 3 Inf able to hit the bomber?
If the answer is No,
does it implies that their is a AAA included in the pillboxes package, so they can stop the bomber with preemptive @1 shot?
:?

[baron Münchhausen]

@Imperious:

Its better not to have a restriction…any 3 ground units @4. The idea is mostly Infantry will be candidates because of cost.

Damage is maxed at 6, first three SBR hits make it unusable.

I think it implies that every bomber get 2 hits per SBR. Does it required to roll 1 to 4 to hit? :?

[Imperious Leader]

I think it implies that every bomber get 2 hits per SBR. Does it required to roll 1 to 4 to hit?

Bombers roll one die for damage and the result is the damage placed under the pillbox. So if it rolls 5 only 1 unit gets to roll @4

[baron Münchhausen]

@Imperious:

I think it implies that every bomber get 2 hits per SBR. Does it required to roll 1 to 4 to hit?

Bombers roll one die for damage and the result is the damage placed under the pillbox. So if it rolls 5 only 1 unit gets to roll @4

So the 3 Inf of our examples can do nothing to stop this SBR…
Sooner or later (unless repaired by IPC) the bunker will be blasted.