L21 playoff OOB jkeller(X) vs trulpen (L+43)

[jkeller]

"If a transport encounters hostile surface warships (not enemy submarines and/or transports) AFTER it begins to move (not counting the sea zone it started in), its movement for that turn ends, and it must stop there and conduct sea combat.

A transport can load units while in any friendly sea zone along its route, including the sea zone it started in."

From my reading after the battle is concluded (assuming side with transport wins sea battle) the sea zone is no longer hostile and it can load units

[jkeller]

Game History

Round: 6

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 1 infantry and 2 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Italians
        1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia
              Italians take Northwest Persia from British

    Combat - Italians

    Non Combat Move - Italians
        1 mech_infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Bessarabia
        1 mech_infantry moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia
        1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern Italy

    Place Units - Italians
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from 97 Sea Zone: 2 destroyers
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to 93 Sea Zone: 2 destroyers
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 infantry placed in Southern Italy
        1 submarine placed in 95 Sea Zone
        1 submarine placed in 97 Sea Zone
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Changing ownership of Algeria from French to Italians
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from Tunisia: 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Italians to Algeria: 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

    Turn Complete - Italians
        Italians collect 20 PUs; end with 20 PUs
        Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 22 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

[jkeller]

italy l21-sf-jkeller-vs-trulpen-43-oob (21).tsvg

[trulpen]

@jkeller said in L21 playoff OOB jkeller(X) vs trulpen (L+43):

From my reading of the rules I can leave transports in the sz and they cannot move in noncombat but land units can board them in noncombat do you agree?

Unfortunately not, since they would have been part of the combat. Same thing if they leave during CM and load units, those units have to be part of an amphi during the combat phase.

[trulpen]

@trulpen said in L21 playoff OOB jkeller(X) vs trulpen (L+43):

From the G40-EU rules, p 22 (NCM):

Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat Move or Conduct Combat phase.

[trulpen]

I know, this kind of screws over Japan pretty hard. All for just a small boat.

[trulpen]

Franz6 L21 SF jkeller vs trulpen (+43) OOB.tsvg

[jkeller]

@trulpen I read through the rules a few times and don’t see that anywhere

[jkeller]

It only says they cannot move afterwards to load units. Presumably to avoid ridiculous situations like you propose where Japan cannot use her own home sea zone even though she in complete control of it

[trulpen]

@jkeller said in L21 playoff OOB jkeller(X) vs trulpen (L+43):

@trulpen I read through the rules a few times and don’t see that anywhere

It’s on page 22, in the Non-Combat Moves segment.

[jkeller]

It’s already kind of silly I can’t load in combat phase to not be able to load from home island in any phase even while in possession of the sea zone and enemy boats are clear would be really ridiculous and pretty much make the map unplayable

[trulpen]

I didn’t think of all these consequences when I built the des, but primarily wanted to prevent an amphi on Korea.

[jkeller]

Are you referring to this?

“Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat Move or Conduct Combat phase.”

It only says The transports cannot MOVE to a friendly coastal territory to load. But the transport is not moving it is the land units that are moving onto the transport and they are not restricted by being in combat because they were not.

If there is a rule against loading in noncombat I don’t see it in the rule book

[jkeller]

It is the moving part that is the problem. If it was the loading part it would not have specified the move to a “friendly coastal territory “. It would have just said cannot load.

[trulpen]

Not quite. It does say move, but it also says “and load or offload cargo”. If the trannies partake in combat, they cannot use any action during NCM. That’s how I interpret it anyway.

[jkeller]

@trulpen to me the way it reads that part is in connection to the moving part. If not it wouldn’t specify a friendly coastal territory. (obviously it would have to be a move to a friendly coastal territory to load or unload in nc). Also it would not say “and”. It would say it “can move…” ( to any sz not just a friendly coastal one) “…or load unless…”

[trulpen]

How do you mean? This can’t be dubious: “unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat”.

[jkeller]

That refers to moving in noncombat. The transport won’t be moving

[trulpen]

Like it says in the text it’s with the involvment in battle in the same way that you can’t load and unload units during NCM if you loaded and/or unloaded during CM.

Well, seems we might have to call in the big guns in order to resolve this. Mind that I’m not trying to tweak the rules to my advantage in any way, but they are what they are.

@gamerman01
@Adam514
@axis-dominion

[Adam514]

@trulpen If a transport does anything (ignoring a sub doesn’t count as something) during the CM, including just moving a sea zone or participating in battle, it cannot do anything else during the NCM phase. That means it cannot move, load units or unload units in the NCM phase.