A non- political 9-11 question

[gamerman01]

I think he’s referring to mine.  Is it considered political to call Hitler and the 9/11 attacks dastardly and heinous???

[Imperious Leader]

yes i was referring to you. Not Jermo.

[Lucifer]

It is worse to kill several people than a single person, and it is worse to target civilians, instead of soldiers. The Iraqi civilians are collateral damage, so in this context it is hard to make a fair comparison, imo. It will be very subjective.

Also, I have a problem with discussing many Iraqi or Afghan, collateral civilians w/o discussing the wars themselves, regardless of if we compare to 9-11, and it is political, even if I agree more with Jermofoot, I can’t see it not being political. But I like political discussions, so I vote for not closing the this thread. Or can we call it a military discussion instead of political?

Also Churchill ordered killing of civilians during WW2. But Stalin was worse than all those other mentioned in this thread.

During the Spanish campaigns in South America 500 years ago, there were more South Amercian people killed by infectious disease, than by Spanish guns and swords.

[gamerman01]

Thanks for providing some relevant context, Subo

[gamerman01]

@Imperious:

yes i was referring to you. Not Jermo.

And why didn’t you answer my question?  I think I have a right to your answer since you criticized my post as somehow being “political”.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Tone it down or this will be shut guys! This is beyond political this is getting close to being a flame war. We don’t need that.

GG

[Imperious Leader]

I think I have a right to your answer since you criticized my post as somehow being “political”.

The post was getting off topic which is typical for how a potential political discussion develops from our experience as moderators. One person starts with a key word and another chains it together and the whole thing mutates from 'selective variation '.

[gamerman01]

Um, thanks for your reply, but my post was right on topic.  I answered what I remember from the morning of 9/11.  Is it controversial to say Hitler and the terrorists were bad?  Wow.

[Imperious Leader]

Bringing in Hitler in a topic on 9-11 is NOT ON TOPIC, either by comparison, analogy, anything.

It does not matter if you said “Hitler was the devil”  Just leave out Hitler and Terrorists in a conversation about “where were you on 9-11”

Thats what this thread is about. Not about Hitler or Terrorists or how bad they are. The thing always mutates latter into “obama is _____” or its Bush’s fault latter.

It may seem crazy but i have been seeing this for over five years on this site. It starts with one thing than leads to another and fights start.

And don’t be defensive. I am just here to make sure problems don’t start. I don’t have as they say “a dog in this fight”

[ABWorsham4]

It’s time to kill this post. It’s beyond saving.

[bbrett3]

@Imperious:

And don’t be defensive. I am just here to make sure problems don’t start. I don’t have as they say “a dog in this fight”

So now you gotta bring Vick into it? OH, IT’S ON NOW!!!

jk :wink:

[Jermofoot]

I want a political 7-11 question.

[Guest]

The United States Government entered the war intending to use strategic daylight precision bombing, which was used with mixed success in Europe and never officially abandoned as a policy. Over Japan, because of the jetstream, strategic precision bombing proved to be impractical and the United States abandoned the policy in favour of a policy of area bombardment. From March 1945 through the end of the war, many Japanese cities were subjected to area bombing with incendiaries. Tokyo, Osaka, and many other cities were burned out by firestorms that reached over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. American precision bombing, fire bombing and atomic bombing in Japan killed between 330,000 and 500,000 Japanese civilians.

Just a little history lesson.

[Jermofoot]

@Brain:

The United States Government entered the war intending to use strategic daylight precision bombing, which was used with mixed success in Europe and never officially abandoned as a policy. Over Japan, because of the jetstream, strategic precision bombing proved to be impractical and the United States abandoned the policy in favour of a policy of area bombardment. From March 1945 through the end of the war, many Japanese cities were subjected to area bombing with incendiaries. Tokyo, Osaka, and many other cities were burned out by firestorms that reached over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. American precision bombing, fire bombing and atomic bombing in Japan killed between 330,000 and 500,000 Japanese civilians.

Just a little history lesson.

I saw an amazing comparison in The Fog of War (Robert McNamara’s story on US approach to war) that showed the equivalent US cities in size to the ones bombed in Japan.  I know this will fall on deaf ears and/or be negated by “they started it”, but this is something to really think about.

http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html

Just some excerpts:

NYC - 51% destroyed
LA - 40%
Chicago - 35.1%
Chattanooga - 99%
San Diego - 37.6%
Baltimore - 55.7%
Miami - 35.8%
Lexingon (my town) - 50.2%
Boston - 69.3%

[Guest]

I saw an amazing comparison in The Fog of War (Robert McNamara’s story on US approach to war) that showed the equivalent US cities in size to the ones bombed in Japan.  I know this will fall on deaf ears and/or be negated by “they started it”, but this is something to really think about.

http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html

Just some excerpts:

NYC - 51% destroyed
LA - 40%
Chicago - 35.1%
Chattanooga - 99%
San Diego - 37.6%
Baltimore - 55.7%
Miami - 35.8%
Lexingon (my town) - 50.2%
Boston - 69.3%

I saw something similar to this when I was at the D-Day Museum in New Orleans just about 2 weeks before Katrina hit. It showed all the cities in Japan that were bombed and the percentage of destruction to each city. It was shocking.

[ABWorsham4]

@Jermofoot:

@Brain:

The United States Government entered the war intending to use strategic daylight precision bombing, which was used with mixed success in Europe and never officially abandoned as a policy. Over Japan, because of the jetstream, strategic precision bombing proved to be impractical and the United States abandoned the policy in favour of a policy of area bombardment. From March 1945 through the end of the war, many Japanese cities were subjected to area bombing with incendiaries. Tokyo, Osaka, and many other cities were burned out by firestorms that reached over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. American precision bombing, fire bombing and atomic bombing in Japan killed between 330,000 and 500,000 Japanese civilians.

Just a little history lesson.

I saw an amazing comparison in The Fog of War (Robert McNamara’s story on US approach to war) that showed the equivalent US cities in size to the ones bombed in Japan.  I know this will fall on deaf ears and/or be negated by “they started it”, but this is something to really think about.

http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html

Just some excerpts:

NYC - 51% destroyed
LA - 40%
Chicago - 35.1%
Chattanooga - 99%
San Diego - 37.6%
Baltimore - 55.7%
Miami - 35.8%
Lexingon (my town) - 50.2%
Boston - 69.3%

Thanks for the post. We shouldn’t lose sight of the suffering that war brings.

[Guest]

Countries should settle their differences over a game of Axis and Allies.

[gnasape]

@Brain:

Countries should settle their differences over a game of Axis and Allies.

Good idea but can you imagine the argument over the rules, realism, etc, etc.  It will be like this forum! :)

Nah, seriously, a good game of chess is what we need to settle wars.  Champion vs. Champion!

World Series of Chess!

[Imperious Leader]

Good idea but can you imagine the argument over the rules, realism, etc, etc.

exactly, now i was saying the blockhouse must be a 2 or less unit……blah blah blah.

[Panzer Leader]

I was watching TV at the time waiting to pick-up my wife at her work to go to our Lawyer’s appointment for singning the papers for our new home we just had purchased. I was thinking I was watching a movie or something until I actually realized that this was really happening, and then I thought it was just a plane accident, and then the guy comes on saying the second tower just got struck by another plane, then the Pentagon got hit, and I thought it was going to be WW3 starting and the world was going to hell in a handbasket, and here I am buying a brand new expensive house. I did not know what to think. :-P
On a side note has anybody else seen that American 20 dollar fold-up that shows the towers on fire, oshama, 911, the Pentagon on fire as well, etc. That is actually pretty creeping. :?