USSR Victory Objectives "scoring" protocol

[JbuckBuddy]

Worldwide Communism states 1 vic objective 4 each tt worth at least 1 ipp that it did not possess at the start of the game and are not scored as part of another soviet victory objective.

I am curious about say whether USSR has some but not all of the zones for “buffer zone”, would that mean that since they do not have them all then they would not be “scored” for the soviets. It sounds like they don’t want doubling up on any tts for victory points, which is fine. I am simply curious if they mean that worldwide communism victory points can never be gotten from the tts listed in buffer zone, or that if say the soviets possess all the tts for buffer zone then obviously they would be unable to claim them as VP’s for worldwide communism. In which case it would seem smart to always leave one buffer zone tt out if possible so long as they had at least 2 of the 3 buffer zone tts worth 1 ipp(east poland, karjala, and lithuania).

I’m inclined to think that any player should go with whatever path allows them the most VPs but the wording of “scored” threw me off and once again i wanted to be sure. Any help or input would he appreciated, thanks.

[Adalwolf]

@jbuckbuddy said in USSR Victory Objectives "scoring" protocol:

Worldwide Communism states 1 vic objective 4 each tt worth at least 1 ipp that it did not possess at the start of the game and are not scored as part of another soviet victory objective.

I am curious about say whether USSR has some but not all of the zones for “buffer zone”, would that mean that since they do not have them all then they would not be “scored” for the soviets. It sounds like they don’t want doubling up on any tts for victory points, which is fine. I am simply curious if they mean that worldwide communism victory points can never be gotten from the tts listed in buffer zone, or that if say the soviets possess all the tts for buffer zone then obviously they would be unable to claim them as VP’s for worldwide communism. In which case it would seem smart to always leave one buffer zone tt out if possible so long as they had at least 2 of the 3 buffer zone tts worth 1 ipp(east poland, karjala, and lithuania).

I’m inclined to think that any player should go with whatever path allows them the most VPs but the wording of “scored” threw me off and once again i wanted to be sure. Any help or input would he appreciated, thanks.

There is no doubling up on Territories that score VPs. If you possess ALL the territories listed in the Buffer Zone, you score 1 point. (E. Poland, Lubelski, Karjala, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia)
For every other territory you have outside of those specifically listed above, then you score 1 VP for each territory worth 1 IPP. Exceptions, you cannot have possessed it at the start of the game and it can’t be part of another VP condition (i.e. Buffer Zone)

The way to achieve this for example would be Mongolia. That would be 2 VPs right there.

[Chris_Henry]

@athawulf I think what @JbuckBuddy is asking though is if you do not have every nation for Buffer Zone what happens?

As in, say you have all of them except of Estonia. Does that mean that East Poland, Karjala, and Lithuania can all be used to score for Worldwide Communism since the score for Buffer Zone is not attainable?

Or is the rule that because those territories are all listed as being potentially part of a different victory objective, whether you obtain that objective or not, that those territories cannot count towards Worldwide Communism?

Thanks for asking this, as I recently was wondering the same thing. It had suddenly dawned on me that this was possible. To me, the fact that Buffer Zone didn’t get achieved in your scenario, that means the territories were not “scored” and could be utilized for Worldwide Communism. But that might take a clarification, as I guess I can see how someone could think it doesn’t mean that. The wording is a bit off if that is the case though, as this exact situation was very much so open for interpretation.

[Adalwolf]

@chris_henry

Not knowing how the designers would answer this, I would play it like this.
The Buffer Zone VP is part of 1 VP, and you either have them or don’t. If you only have half of the territories then you don’t meet the conditions of the VP. You can’t say I use those territories as part of another VP because the rules state you can’t in Worldwide Communism “is not scored as part of another victory condition.” That’s how I see it.

[Chris_Henry]

@athawulf So you’re saying you don’t think you could use the Buffer Zone Territories as part of Worldwide Communism then if Buffer Zone wasn’t attained, correct? Sorry, I read your message funny, so just wanted to be sure we’re on the same page.

I can certainly see that. I think the rule should say for Worldwide Communism "and are not potentially scored as part of another Soviet Victory condition. Just saying scored definitely can imply what @JbuckBuddy was saying, but adding that word “potentially” takes away all doubt, at least to me it does.

And that makes sense, because I think you could argue that a Soviet player might intentionally not take a Buffer Zone territory in order to get more victory objectives via Worldwide Communism. At least I would. Just don’t take Estonia or something like that, then take all the rest to get multiple Worldwide Communism victory objectives. So it makes sense to me that you couldn’t do this by restricting the rule to mean just as you say.

Anyways, just my two cents. I think that word “potentially” makes a world of difference in rules clarification here.

[JbuckBuddy]

@chris_henry I’m inclined to agree with u when it comes to how the rule can easily be taken advantage of, but as is i think the intention of the buffer zone VP was to not have those tts be possible for worldwide communism VP’s and the fault lies, as u described, in the lack of the word potentially. But given the ambiguity, I once again figured I would check with y’all on the off chance I was missing something. Thanks anyway tho.

[insaneHoshi]

My 2 cents:

The eastern european territories part of the Buffer Zone Objective never can count towards Global Communism Objective ; These territories are always “scored” towards the Buffer Zone, just in one case they are scored and provide one VP or in the other they are scored and provide 0 VPs (because not all were conquered.).

[Chris_Henry]

Oh yeah, I agree with both of you, @insaneHoshi and @JbuckBuddy, I think that is the proper interpretation of the rule. I was merely pointing out that the way it’s written leaves this question completely justifiable to have been made, as that’s how the rule reads as written!