• 2024 2023 '22 '21 '20

    It is hard to make definitive assessment of this plan with out defining which rule set is being used and bid, if any.
    OOB rules without any bid, and the Axis can probably try anything and win.
    So let’s say
    40+ bid OOB, or BM3/4 rules.
    The Brits will buy 1 ftr+6inf because of you G1 purchase. Assuming the DD dies killing the BB, and therefore G2 is clear to take Gibraltar, Russia is still defensive. The Brits should see the coming invasion, and focus on keeping s. Africa, and werstern front. Norway if possible, but more likely building up to join US on Turn 4… assuming Japan DOW by turn 3, so the US can take Gibraltar back US 3, and start invasions US4.

    The Brits have invested no money in middle east because the German moves, but gain from the knowledge and adapt going north. Not a guaranteed plan, but Germany would be hard pressed to fight in med+western front +russia. Losing any of these would be problematic.

    Coupled with additional IPCs from bid or game rules for allies and the game is not easily won by axis.


  • @squirecam Egypt is a terrible place to put an early UK factory, for exactly that reason. You put the factory in Persia, where it’s quite far from starting Axis forces, and then you only expand with a factory in Persia if the Axis are ignoring the region.


  • @surfer

    True that, a bid would make the game substantially more challenging for the axis which is not bad

    Personally I feel the A&A community doesn’t nearly recognize enough that the Axis do have the advantage in the game, so I’m all for it if need be


  • @argothair said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    @squirecam Egypt is a terrible place to put an early UK factory, for exactly that reason. You put the factory in Persia, where it’s quite far from starting Axis forces, and then you only expand with a factory in Persia if the Axis are ignoring the region.

    True. But then the axis should land in Syria and head to take the factory.

    Basically, if you are playing a mideast strategy, then the goal is taking it, not attacking russia on g2 or g3.


  • @surfer said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    It is hard to make definitive assessment of this plan with out defining which rule set is being used and bid, if any.
    OOB rules without any bid, and the Axis can probably try anything and win.
    So let’s say
    40+ bid OOB, or BM3/4 rules.
    The Brits will buy 1 ftr+6inf because of you G1 purchase. Assuming the DD dies killing the BB, and therefore G2 is clear to take Gibraltar, Russia is still defensive. The Brits should see the coming invasion, and focus on keeping s. Africa, and werstern front. Norway if possible, but more likely building up to join US on Turn 4… assuming Japan DOW by turn 3, so the US can take Gibraltar back US 3, and start invasions US4.

    The Brits have invested no money in middle east because the German moves, but gain from the knowledge and adapt going north. Not a guaranteed plan, but Germany would be hard pressed to fight in med+western front +russia. Losing any of these would be problematic.

    Coupled with additional IPCs from bid or game rules for allies and the game is not easily won by axis.

    So from your example I would consider this a failure of the Japanese player. If USA is going all out in the Atlantic then Japan needs to win the game in the pacific and needs to focus on taking the VC as soon as possible. Germany should be focused on surviving.

    Also, is UK going with Taranto? Because that certainly affects things. Let’s assume a bm game so we dont have a crazy bid to discuss.


  • @squirecam

    That’s the balancing part to this strategy.

    As the player in charge of Germany, it’s genuinely going to take a keen and consistent mind to balance 2 fronts in a war of attacking the Russian Bear and the Scorpions of the desert, let alone fight them both effectively.

    The role that Japan plays in all this is the lead boxer in a fighting arena of other tiny insignificant fighters, Japan should be beating the living hell out of China, Anzac, UK Pacific, and even to the extent America, that is the role they play, and it doesn’t matter how long, or how hard they hit, they need to continue hitting until the game is won on the Pacific.

    As for Germany, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘surviving’ because that’s not per say what the Germans will be doing objective like-wise. What Germany should be doing is Germany should be taking it to the Allied powers in Europe, now granted this sounds more obvious then the word obvious, but seriously hear me out on this. Part of what makes the German War Machine so unstoppable is it’s ability to continue to just A) Pump out units, B) Fight incredibly effectively and C) Recalibrate after a loss on any sort of front in the war. That’s why it’s called the German War “Machine” The combined strength of Germany leaves the Allies clueless how to stop them, they refer to Germany as a machine by the very means that they fight a war like a programmed machine designed to win, not just of the player’s own doing. But it’s up to the player ultimately to recognize that and utilize that concept, because Germany can fight effectively on any front they choose whether they go West, East or South.


  • This post is deleted!
  • 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16

    @squirecam Land in Syria and take Persia? Easier said than done! After a Taranto raid, Italy has only one transport remaining – if you land on turn 1, you get 2 units into Syria, which can often be immediately counter-attacked and killed from Egypt/Trans-Jordan. Even if they survive, there’s no guarantee that they’ll be able to conquer Persia.

    Waiting until turn 2 to move into Syria doesn’t necessarily help – with only 10 IPCs, Italy can only build one extra transport, so now you’re landing with 4 ground units in Syria on turn 2. You can pick up the 3 infantry in Iraq on turn 3, and maybe land an infantry and a tank in Syria again on turn 3 so the tank can blitz to Persia on turn 4, which means you attack Persia on Italy’s turn 4 with 4 + 3 + 1 = 8 ground units plus maybe a couple of planes.

    For its part, Britain can activate Persia on turn 1 with a loaded transport, meaning there will be 2 + 2 = 4 British units there on UK1. On UK2, Britain builds a Persian factory. On UK3, Britain builds 3 infantry in Persia, plus the 1 infantry from West India can arrive by foot. On UK4 (UK goes before Italy), you build 3 more infantry; 2 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 3 = 11 units defending Persia, not counting a couple of planes that can easily be stationed there as needed. So something like 11 inf, 2 fighters, even without any loaded transports coming up from South Africa or mech. inf. coming from East India.

    Even with Italy going all-out against Syria/Iraq/Persia, and even with little/no reinforcements beyond just building the Persian factory and building infantry there, Italy is heavily outnumbered in attacking Persia. Much, much later in the game, after Italy has already taken Egypt, then the main Italian army can walk over toward Persia and cause real problems there – but that means the Persian factory has successfully produced for 7-8 turns, so it’s done its job for the Allies. The game will likely be decided elsewhere before the Italians can make to Tehran.


  • @argothair

    Thank you! This is quite literally the exact reason why Germany should do Afrika Korps. Italy doesn’t belong in the Middle East it doesn’t help them at all to throw a way valuable resources like that. Italy has 1 priority and that’s to 1) Dominate the Med Sea and 2) Take Egypt

    Alot of people don’t understand that Germany is here to do the dirty work. Let Germany take Syria and move into Iraq, Germany will be the ones fighting the British hand and hand all Italy needs to do is work on taking Cairo


  • @argothair said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    @squirecam Land in Syria and take Persia? Easier said than done! After a Taranto raid, Italy has only one transport remaining – if you land on turn 1, you get 2 units into Syria, which can often be immediately counter-attacked and killed from Egypt/Trans-Jordan. Even if they survive, there’s no guarantee that they’ll be able to conquer Persia.

    Waiting until turn 2 to move into Syria doesn’t necessarily help – with only 10 IPCs, Italy can only build one extra transport, so now you’re landing with 4 ground units in Syria on turn 2. You can pick up the 3 infantry in Iraq on turn 3, and maybe land an infantry and a tank in Syria again on turn 3 so the tank can blitz to Persia on turn 4, which means you attack Persia on Italy’s turn 4 with 4 + 3 + 1 = 8 ground units plus maybe a couple of planes.

    For its part, Britain can activate Persia on turn 1 with a loaded transport, meaning there will be 2 + 2 = 4 British units there on UK1. On UK2, Britain builds a Persian factory. On UK3, Britain builds 3 infantry in Persia, plus the 1 infantry from West India can arrive by foot. On UK4 (UK goes before Italy), you build 3 more infantry; 2 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 3 = 11 units defending Persia, not counting a couple of planes that can easily be stationed there as needed. So something like 11 inf, 2 fighters, even without any loaded transports coming up from South Africa or mech. inf. coming from East India.

    Even with Italy going all-out against Syria/Iraq/Persia, and even with little/no reinforcements beyond just building the Persian factory and building infantry there, Italy is heavily outnumbered in attacking Persia. Much, much later in the game, after Italy has already taken Egypt, then the main Italian army can walk over toward Persia and cause real problems there – but that means the Persian factory has successfully produced for 7-8 turns, so it’s done its job for the Allies. The game will likely be decided elsewhere before the Italians can make to Tehran.

    I dont agree with this. I’m going to use both Germany and Italy in taking the med and mideast. If there is no factory in Egypt then fine I’ll take the money but if there is a factory in persia then that is the combined target of both countries.

    Why should I wait for you to build up infantry in Persia when I can use german and italian transports to take your factory and start building there. Or. You can have Japan come and take it too.

    The target should be the UK factory. Wherever it goes.


  • @squirecam

    Granted while a single factory may not mean much harm to the Axis as a whole being that it pumps out only 3 units a turn, I would only enact a full on operation in Africa by the Germans and Italians if said strategy of Middle Earth is being put into play to which we’re talking the UK is building on the IC’s of Persia and South Africa, doing a full on shuck of troops from down south to up North in Egypt and India and so on and so forth to which the Middle Earth strategy consists of, sending transports and a majority of units to put down a single IC in Persia may feel a bit inadequate to do.

    Granted, why I really have come to love Grasshopper’s tournament rules being that the UK is split into 2 completely different playable nations which stops the so said 'overpowered Middle Earth strategy"

    And when GHG called for people to counter this strategy, everybody said “Yeah, just do Sealion” which, I think we can all agree was the first thing that came to people’s minds, not exactly a well thought out strategy to stopping Middle Earth.

    Hence why you guys along with myself have come forward to finding a genuine well thought out counter to Middle Earth, and granted I can say that this strategy works.


  • So then if we’re to do a head count here, I wanna know exactly how much stuff the UK can genuinly bring into a Taranto Raid.

    So they’ll bring in the destroyer, cruiser, carrier, tactical bomber, and fighter from Malta, as well as the bomber from the UK, and I believe 2 fighters from the UK in total to bring down if they BOTH land on the surviving carrier, but that’s probably not a good idea though because the moment the carrier dies the 2 planes die having used all their movement to get down there.

    So you’ve got 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, 1 carrier, 3 fighteres, 1 tactical bomber, 1 strategic bomber against what would be a cruiser, battleship and 3 fighters.

    To me, its genuinly going to take a keen UK player to know they can bring this much stuff into Taranto and frankly, even if a UK player did know they could bring this much stuff in, if they did I’d welcome it as Germany seeing that they’ve taken almost every single plane off of the British Isles with no logical way to get back until G3 which is the exact time I would be doing a Sealion attack.

    So a combined German and Italian crusade could work inside the Med, the Axis just need to make sure they scramble those fighters into the fight no matter what happens.


  • @luftwaffles41 said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    @squirecam

    Granted while a single factory may not mean much harm to the Axis as a whole being that it pumps out only 3 units a turn, I would only enact a full on operation in Africa by the Germans and Italians if said strategy of Middle Earth is being put into play to which we’re talking the UK is building on the IC’s of Persia and South Africa, doing a full on shuck of troops from down south to up North in Egypt and India and so on and so forth to which the Middle Earth strategy consists of, sending transports and a majority of units to put down a single IC in Persia may feel a bit inadequate to do.

    Granted, why I really have come to love Grasshopper’s tournament rules being that the UK is split into 2 completely different playable nations which stops the so said 'overpowered Middle Earth strategy"

    Eliminating Anzac from the game is too great a change for me.


  • @squirecam

    I wasn’t super comfortable with it. And granted with the terms of the pacific I still think anzac should exist i just like the aspect that the 2 sides of the UK are played by different players


  • @thedesertfox said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    So then if we’re to do a head count here, I wanna know exactly how much stuff the UK can genuinly bring into a Taranto Raid.

    To me, its genuinly going to take a keen UK player to know they can bring this much stuff into Taranto and frankly, even if a UK player did know they could bring this much stuff in, if they did I’d welcome it as Germany seeing that they’ve taken almost every single plane off of the British Isles with no logical way to get back until G3 which is the exact time I would be doing a Sealion attack.

    So a combined German and Italian crusade could work inside the Med, the Axis just need to make sure they scramble those fighters into the fight no matter what happens.

    Sealion has been known to be a Hail Mary for quite some time. It is arguably more of a liability for Germany because it costs too much. If UK purchases a full compliment of infantry turn 1(what I call the Dunkirk move) its not worth it. The cost is just too great. USA liberates it too easily and you don’t have the advantage of having pushed the Soviets back. You lose more than you gain. A single fighter missing from the battle of England isn’t going to matter as much as putting Italy in the pooper. Sealion if you play a noob who doesn’t Dunkirk. If Dunkirk happens divert, its not worth the effort. It’ll cost you more in blood in the long run.

    I do think most competitive players understand that Sealion after Dunkirk is a game in the bag and would welcome it even more than yourself. This is why they elect to move an additional fighter off England. It is a comfortable thing for most to do. Especially for those who enjoy playing an offensive USSR.


  • @pinch1 Mostly agree with this, but what the heck is Dunkirk in the context of Global 1940? The only British units in mainland Europe at setup are in Paris, and will be killed G1 before they can be evacuated by sea.


  • @argothair said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    @pinch1 Mostly agree with this, but what the heck is Dunkirk in the context of Global 1940? The only British units in mainland Europe at setup are in Paris, and will be killed G1 before they can be evacuated by sea.

    Buy 9 infantry turn 1 with UK. Its Dunkirk, effectively. You telling me nobody has made that parallel?


  • @pinch1 That’s the first time I’ve heard it called that, but, sure, OK.


  • @argothair said in UK Strategy -"Middle Earth":

    @pinch1 That’s the first time I’ve heard it called that, but, sure, OK.

    YES!


  • @pinch1

    It sure has.

    Hence why I’m not too fond of it.

    I’m not going to argue the merits at which Sealion is effective in the OOB rules for victory conditions. Maybe it’ll get the win in the Grasshopper tournament rules with the London token but still. To me if the UK feel so entitled as to remove the majority of their fighters from London fine by me.

    And yes, 1 fighter can make the difference of keeping or losing London

Suggested Topics

  • 4
  • 15
  • 39
  • 32
  • 11
  • 15
  • 11
  • 10
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

38

Online

17.0k

Users

39.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts