Tnx for answers and opinions.
Are Heavy Carriers not very good?
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Allow me to assume that any nation that is going into Heavy Carriers, is going to be getting advanced construction first.
Is it just me, or are Heavy Carriers not very good? Not only are they harder to unlock than something like a Heavy Battleship, they seem to not bring much more strategically.
Let us assume that we want to get 3 planes from point A to B. Our options are (assume improved construction):
- 1 Heavy Carrier for 15 IPP; Def: 1@2; Hits: 2
- 1 Fleet Carrier and 1 Light Carrier for 18 IPP; Def 1@2, 1@1; Hits 3
- 3 Light Carriers for 18 IPP; Def 3@1; Hits 3
It seems to me Heavy Carriers don’t bring anything to the table, with the added risk of taking a single hit and having 3 planes crash into the ocean. They can adsorb less hits overall, they roll less dice, and don’t have the tactical flexibility of hitting multiple locations.
It seems to me that I would never research and build such a Heavy Carrier over a Heavy Battleship or over other carriers (and save myself a research slot).
This is somewhat disappointing as historically carriers were the pinnacle of
ww2naval combat and a heavy version of this should be the top tier naval unit in the game.I think this unit could use an improvement in the form of another hit or allowing planes (or perhaps just 2 planes) to land on a damaged heavy carrier.
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@insanehoshi Many of the techs appear to be too little too late. We generally focus on Economic, Fighter, Bomber and Artillery. Subs too late for Germany, ships in general too late to the game. Fighters are probably best bang for buck, IMHO.
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@insanehoshi said in Are Heavy Carriers not very good?:
Allow me to assume that any nation that is going into Heavy Carriers, is going to be getting advanced construction first.
Is it just me, or are Heavy Carriers not very good? Not only are they harder to unlock than something like a Heavy Battleship, they seem to not bring much more strategically.
Let us assume that we want to get 3 planes from point A to B. Our options are (assume improved construction):
- 1 Heavy Carrier for 15 IPP; Def: 1@2; Hits: 2
- 1 Fleet Carrier and 1 Light Carrier for 18 IPP; Def 1@2, 1@1; Hits 3
- 3 Light Carriers for 18 IPP; Def 3@1; Hits 3
It seems to me Heavy Carriers don’t bring anything to the table, with the added risk of taking a single hit and having 3 planes crash into the ocean. They can adsorb less hits overall, they roll less dice, and don’t have the tactical flexibility of hitting multiple locations.
It seems to me that I would never research and build such a Heavy Carrier over a Heavy Battleship or over other carriers (and save myself a research slot).
This is somewhat disappointing as historically carriers were the pinnacle of
ww2naval combat and a heavy version of this should be the top tier naval unit in the game.I think this unit could use an improvement in the form of another hit or allowing planes (or perhaps just 2 planes) to land on a damaged heavy carrier.
How does this Advanced construction work ? 1 less round to build ? 1 less ICP cost per turn ? I got on rules on site for H Carriers A0 D2 M3 C6/6/6 It doesn’t get an Attack.
Just saying your costs don’t match rules I’m seeing but waiting on the advanced construction rule. -
@sjelso I find Heavy battleships incredibly useful. You slap 3 of these down for the pacific front and Japan knows his naval days are numbered.
@gen-manstein Each stage in production becomes 1IPP cheaper. So 5/5/5 becomes 4/4/4. Alternatively you can produce two stages in one turn at normal cost so 5/5/5 becomes 4/10
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Well to make it worth it the cost should be 5/5/5 for H Carrier. Plus A@1.
Unless there basing it on only a few were build by certain powers. Then make it cheaper for those certain powers. Hey there’s a Ton of stuff in game so what’s another rule. -
Even if any power can research them, the USA are probably the only ones that can both build enough factories to generate tech rolls and have the budget to invest in heavy carriers.
While they have the same stats as a Fleet Carrier, the ability to carry 3 planes should not be neglected.
I think that it’s fairer to compare the regular costs, as you cannot be guaranteed to get Improved Constructions first.
So for 18 IPP (6/6/6), you can carry 3 planes, vs 23 IPP if you go with a Fleet Carrier (5/5/5) and an Escort Carrier (4/4). That is a 5 IPP saving, so half the cost of your extra plane.
Granted that if you attain Improved Construction first, then paying the extra 3 IPP for one extrat hit, one extra defense roll (at 1) and the option to split your forces, may favor going with a Fleet Carrier and an Escort Carrier to carry 3 planes.
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@noneshallpass said in Are Heavy Carriers not very good?:
Even if any power can research them, the USA are probably the only ones that can both build enough factories to generate tech rolls and have the budget to invest in heavy carriers.
While they have the same stats as a Fleet Carrier, the ability to carry 3 planes should not be neglected.
I think that it’s fairer to compare the regular costs, as you cannot be guaranteed to get Improved Constructions first.
So for 18 IPP (6/6/6), you can carry 3 planes, vs 23 IPP if you go with a Fleet Carrier (5/5/5) and an Escort Carrier (4/4). That is a 5 IPP saving, so half the cost of your extra plane.
Granted that if you attain Improved Construction first, then paying the extra 3 IPP for one extrat hit, one extra defense roll (at 1) and the option to split your forces, may favor going with a Fleet Carrier and an Escort Carrier to carry 3 planes.
I just edit my last post about certain
powers while you posted -
Heavy BBs are intimidating with their 3 hits to sink and the best attack/defense roll in the game of 10, but u will quickly find they are the 1st “target selected” with lucky sub rolls of 1 and especially Tacs on 1-3. Very rare that in a big naval battle u will be able to roll on that 10 for more than the 1st round.
Of course the best counter for Tacs are a superiorty of Ftrs or Jets, which can be conviently hauled around the sea with a Heavy Carrier.
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@jbuckbuddy Do remember that is takes 3 Target selects to sink that thing. It will dent it, but I prefer to use my target selects against juicy cruisers instead, where I take off 6 or 7 pips instead of 2.
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@trig Of course. I was just referring to their insane roll of a 10 that would most likely be reduced as it would probably be the most likely target to be picked 1st. Even a possible 2nd target select hit would most likely go to the heavy as well as thend it would probably still be the most dangerous vessel still hitting on an 8.
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@jbuckbuddy Mathematically, its always almost better to take out any other ship than it is to move a Heavy BB from @10 to @8.
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@insanehoshi said in Are Heavy Carriers not very good?:
@jbuckbuddy Mathematically, its always almost better to take out any other ship than it is to move a Heavy BB from @10 to @8.
Why not make it @6 instead of an 8 ? Based on I always go by you don’t really know how damaged your ship is.
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@gen-manstein
What do you mean? -
@trig said in Are Heavy Carriers not very good?:
@gen-manstein
What do you mean?Can theses ships be repaired at naval bases or ports ? 1d6 roll or 1d12 roll ?
What I mean is if the BB is damaged it should be reduced in A or D. So say it lost a turret of big guns or such then it isn’t at full A or D
So if it has 1 hit damage it goes down to AD@6 instead of 10.You could go HBB 1 dam AD@7. 2 dam AD@5
Basically the Tipitz, it’s sister and Yamo only real HBB. Unless there’s another.
Depends on what you want for game play or historical in away.
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@gen-manstein I am not sure what rules you are discussing.
The battleboard has the same stats for Attack and Defense for Heavy Battleships and each hits reduces the values by 2 (rule 7.8) : undamaged (10), 1 damage (8) and 2 damage (6).
Like all capital ships, they can be repaired at dockyards or shipyards (rule 7.4 and tables on page 54-55).
Paying IPP for the repair of capital ships by rolling a D6 is only an optional rule (15.5).
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@noneshallpass said in Are Heavy Carriers not very good?:
@gen-manstein I am not sure what rules you are discussing.
The battleboard has the same stats for Attack and Defense for Heavy Battleships and each hits reduces the values by 2 (rule 7.8) : undamaged (10), 1 damage (8) and 2 damage (6).
Like all capital ships, they can be repaired at dockyards or shipyards (rule 7.4 and tables on page 54-55).
Paying IPP for the repair of capital ships by rolling a D6 is only an optional rule (15.5).
Ok thanks. Way talk was thought there wasn’t a reduction.
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