It’s all Lies, just to get attention.
Strategic Bombing of Germany
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Well, in my opinion, in the 41’ scenario people get greedy as Germany and make an ill advised attack on Egypt on G1.
I think it’s best to transport 2 units to Libya with Germany and leave 2 units in Bulgaria for landing in Egypt on G2. That’s a total of 8 units(6 in Lib,2 inf Bul)+available air to threaten Egypt which should be enough to make the UK retreat on their turn and give the Italians a free walk in.
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Yes, well, the average cost per bombing run is down from 3 IPC to 2 IPC and the average gain hasn’t changed, so why not SBR?
And who cares about containing Japan when you get to own all of Europe with Russia? By the time Japan can take Russia, Russia’s got an income of insane proportions. (Though I’d let France fall to England or America since Russia cannot get the NO for it.)
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@Cmdr:
I think it is more effective since now one country can do 200% damage than they could before.
Before Germany could only be hit for MAX 10 IPC. Now they can be hit for MAX 20 IPC.
This is incorrect. Germany could be hit 10 IPC MAX, per countries turn. This was potentially a 30 IPC Max on Germany per round if Russia somehow SBRed as well. But realistically, 20 IPC max. In revised, this was 20 IPC in real money, in the new game, Germany doesn’t have to spend the full 20. And if they don’t, the max damage is even less next round.
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But if Germany does not spend the money, they cannot build the units either. So the reduced impact of not repairing is offset by reduced production. (No more 10 infantry in Germany, whew!)
Also, I think you kind of realize what you said when you said technically Germany could be hit for 10 more by Russia in Revised. So I won’t expound upon that.
Lastly, I think it’s important to note that one country can do 200% damage now, so you don’t need bombers for everyone. America could sit there and build nothing but bombers and do 32 IPC damage to Germany/Italy each round allowing England and Russia a chance to do the hard work of taking the soil.
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@Cmdr:
Lastly, I think it’s important to note that one country can do 200% damage now, so you don’t need bombers for everyone. America could sit there and build nothing but bombers and do 32 IPC damage to Germany/Italy each round allowing England and Russia a chance to do the hard work of taking the soil.
Ok, i see your point now, that only one of the allies has to take on a SBR campaign in AA50. Where as in Revised, both UK and USA had to commit to that. I honestly don’t like the Germany restricted in AA50. One IC? sure, maybe its designed that they get Karelia. But UK can deny them Karelia if they wanted to. And when you play with NOs, Germany is earning 50+ and 10 production spots. Its work for me, as I like buying bombers with Germany, but I also end up buying a lot more tanks in AA50. It seems like Germany is pigeoned into a panzer dash to moscow framework. The options seem way more limited in this version for the Germans!!
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Yea, those NOs are really darn annoying. So easy for Germany and Japan both to be getting 50+ while the allies are scrambling to keep 30ish.
Oh, and if England helps with Karelia, then Russia loses 5 IPC a round.
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He built a complex in egypt the first turn. I tried to take it with italy and germany but once again rolled some crappy dice. i eventually took control of africa with japan, but it didnt matter. he had about 10 bombers sitting in england i only had a couple of ftrs but they were defending my tanks. nothing i could do.
Well if you AND fail to take Egypt with an IC on it on I2 AND you fail to take down 25 bombers in the whole game, than it has nothing to do with strategy but only with bad dice.
By the way, I am curious how UK is able to hold an Egypt factory…, even with no G1 attack the axis should overrun this on the second turn… don’t tell me Japan didn’t attack those ships before the coast of India either…
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We never play with NO…Is this ok? I thought that was an option…
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He built a complex in egypt the first turn. I tried to take it with italy and germany but once again rolled some crappy dice. i eventually took control of africa with japan, but it didnt matter. he had about 10 bombers sitting in england i only had a couple of ftrs but they were defending my tanks. nothing i could do.
Well if you AND fail to take Egypt with an IC on it on I2 AND you fail to take down 25 bombers in the whole game, than it has nothing to do with strategy but only with bad dice.
By the way, I am curious how UK is able to hold an Egypt factory…, even with no G1 attack the axis should overrun this on the second turn… don’t tell me Japan didn’t attack those ships before the coast of India either…
I killed his destroyer and transport next to india with two Jap ftrs. In egypt he had 3 inf. tank, art, ftr, and bomber. I attacked with Italy first with 3 inf, tank, ftr, art. and TWO bombardment shots. Both of those missed(they never hit for me) and I only got one hit with the rest. He took everything out but my ftr i retreated my ftr. In all i lost 3 men, art, tank and he just lost 1 inf. I didnt even attempt an attack with Germany. The next round he bought two bombers on the complex and the rd after that he destroyed my italian fleet.
I want to note that since he defended egypt with everything i was able to take India w/IC in two turns. by rd 4 or so i took egypt over with Japan.
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I killed his destroyer and transport next to india with two Jap ftrs.
this is imperative. Smart move.
In egypt he had 3 inf. tank, art, ftr, and bomber. I attacked with Italy first with 3 inf, tank, ftr, art. and TWO bombardment shots. Both of those missed(they never hit for me) and I only got one hit with the rest. He took everything out but my ftr i retreated my ftr. In all i lost 3 men, art, tank and he just lost 1 inf. I didnt even attempt an attack with Germany. The next round he bought two bombers on the complex and the rd after that he destroyed my italian fleet.
You gotta believe me, landing 1 inf, 1 arm into Lib on G1 and moving 2 inf, or 1 inf, 1 arm to Bulgaria or Balk makes an Egypt defense untenable.
Even if you don’t try to soften it up with an Italian landing beforehand, just compare 4 inf, 1 art, 3 arm plus at least the German bomber for support against 3 inf, 1 art, 1 arm, 1 fig, 1 bmb and you’ll see how bad the UK position really is.
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There is no easy way to combat all out SBR on Germany, but if Britian is only buying bomers, then they aren’t buying navy or troops. What I like to do with on G1 is build an AC to protect the baltic felt, then on each german turn I buy 1-2 naval ships usally subs, destroyers and transports. By turn 3 or 4 I have a nice little navy to defend germany with from UK along with 2-3 transports which can threaten London, or I use them as a bridge to get infantry to Russia and Karelia quicker.
Being able to threaten the UK you could attack them and all the bombers stationed there, and if UK doesn’t prepare for it then London falls. This German naval strategy goes along with the Axis strategy that we commonly use to go at the UK first, reducing their IPCs to around 15-20, destroy UK navy with Germany navy and make it impossible for the UK to rebuild.
So my answer for counteracting a UK SBR campain is to go at the UK and make it difficult for them to replace lost items.
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Spending 20 ipcs a turn to be able to build a unit is pretty bad, but here is a thought. Instead of spending say 20 out of your 30(as an example) and thus getting 10 IPCs of spending, you could fall back from the front a bit and not build units that turn. On the next turn you should have 60 ipc, and you spend 20 and have 40 left. If you build twice in a row you will have spent (using the above numbers) 60 ipcs and gotten 20 ipcs of units, this way you spend 60 ipcs and get 40 ipcs worth of units.
Just a thought.
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Ever considered Germany and Italy doing the bomber tag team on England? The Allies are not the only powers that can buy bombers.
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There is no easy way to combat all out SBR on Germany, but if Britian is only buying bomers, then they aren’t buying navy or troops. What I like to do with on G1 is build an AC to protect the baltic felt, then on each german turn I buy 1-2 naval ships usally subs, destroyers and transports. By turn 3 or 4 I have a nice little navy to defend germany with from UK along with 2-3 transports which can threaten London, or I use them as a bridge to get infantry to Russia and Karelia quicker.
With UK and/or USA operating a massive SBR campaign from the UK I don’t see how this can work. All they have to do is spend one turn sending their entire bomber force (and fighters, which will be in range) to sink every non-sub sea unit you have. It’s just not possible for Germany to maintain a non-sub fleet if UK/USA are using lots of bombers out of the UK. The new transport rule of 0 defense and can’t be taken as casualties pretty much means ships are dead vs bombers.
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With UK and/or USA operating a massive SBR campaign from the UK I don’t see how this can work. All they have to do is spend one turn sending their entire bomber force (and fighters, which will be in range) to sink every non-sub sea unit you have. It’s just not possible for Germany to maintain a non-sub fleet if UK/USA are using lots of bombers out of the UK. The new transport rule of 0 defense and can’t be taken as casualties pretty much means ships are dead vs bombers.
That is true, if UK sends bombers after the navy they will sink it, but Germany will take 2-3 bombers and also tie up the bombers for a whole turn. This gives extra time for Germany to produce more units and time for Italy and Japan to take over UK lands reducing UK income and making it more difficult for UK to replace destroyed bombers.
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That is true, if UK sends bombers after the navy they will sink it, but Germany will take 2-3 bombers and also tie up the bombers for a whole turn. This gives extra time for Germany to produce more units and time for Italy and Japan to take over UK lands reducing UK income and making it more difficult for UK to replace destroyed bombers.
Germany time to replace the units they already wasted in the water? Think they call that sunk cost …
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Yes, strategic bombing is always one of the most annoying and effective strategies in the game. How to counter? No perfect way. But this may help:
1) It takes a few turns for UK to build up a bombing squad and you can see it coming. So as Germany, build as many infantry and tank units as possible in your first few turns. Then when the bombing begins, build an airforce to support all your ground units. Since air units are more expensive, you won’t have to “recover” your IC as much. Pretty soon, you will have a bombing squad to do it right back to him (and have all those pretty Russian territories).
2) Shouldn’t you have taken a Russian factory by now to help create units? Also, maybe build an additional factory deeper in Russia and out of range of UK bombers.
3) As far as a counter attack, one of the annoying things about A&A is that naval units are not much of a match for bombers. So once UK builds a big bombing squad, you can kiss any hope of building a fleet goodbye. So the only other “counter” is to have Japan and Italy really pick up the slack on ground units while Germany is crippled (and building a massive airforce).
Let me know if you’ve tried these and if they’ve worked or not.
Now for outside of the box suggestions, here are some house rules we always liked:
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Fighters get a round of defense after an SBR. Now this really sways the balance back toward fighters, so to re-balance it, we allowed fighter escorts with the SBR. So if you brought enough escorts, your fighters (attack 3) would fight their fighters (defend 4) for one round (assuming you brought enough). This made it interesting and realistic with “fighter support”. Plus, I don’t recall Allied bombers having a free reign over Germany (or vice versa) when they had a fighter presence. After all, wasn’t it the effectiveness UK’s fighters that stopped the German bombing (or at least a major contributing factor)?
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To aid the Navy, we simply made everything MUCH cheaper – mimicking the land unit costs of tanks and infantry for naval units. In our experience, a navy was fairly worthless since there were no IPCs to be had in the water. A navy is expensive. So, without the reduced cost, A&A always ended up being a struggle over the main continent of Europe/Asia/Africa. Whoever owned that won the game, plain and simple.
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A final thought, we changed bombers to only attack ground units with their “4’s”. Once all ground units were eliminated, if their were only fighters left, they had to attack them with their “1’s”.
Good luck!
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First off, speaking from experience, -20 IPC from Germany hardly makes a difference when they are earning 50+ (almost 60) with NOs and land. That leaves them with 30+ for units, a significant number.
Italy is a bit more hurt, but still, earning 20+ they can stomach 12 IPC damage if they have too.
As for escorts and defense, I like how AARe does it. Jet Fighters get to roll like AA Guns against bombers and LRA get to escort bombers negating each Jet/AA Gun on a one to one basis.
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Are you making 50+ with germany and the game isn’t already an obvious axis win?
With japan making 60ish, a 50+ germany would be a moot point I think since the game is already decided. This is more for like turn 2-3 when your income isn’t as high. Germany starts out with 30 something if I recall correctly.
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we dont play with NO. Perhaps we should. Germany makes only 31-35 the most, because the allies end up taking Norway and Finland. That’s -5 right there. The Russian lands arent worth much except for Caucasus.
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