• You’re right, Japan does go before England, but I don’t see Japan knocking out the fleet off India.

    You’re talking about what can be done, vs what most people would do.  It would require moving the aircraft carrier to SZ 37 to hit the destroyer with any fighters.  If Japan did move their fleet to off Burma then I’d adapt to defending against a KEF strategy and play aggressively with the US to move against Japan.  That looks like it would be a ‘take out India’ strategy with Japan which would be successful, but you’d be cash poor focusing on India vs taking territories or sinking the American fleet so there is a tradeoff.

    I’ve read a couple of battle reports, but I’ve never seen Japan their fleet to that sea zone.  Japan has a lot to do J1, I don’t see it as high priority to take out that fleet.

    Another thing, when E1 counterattacks and takes Egypt back, if I1 attacks with everything they have they could take Egypt back, but I don’t think they’d be walking in, they would take heavy casualties…  If England moved their bomber to south Africa E1 then they could throw that in to the African battles.  Then, with the transport there could be another counterattack E2 using the transport and bomber, but it would depend on how the dice went.


  • @Alair:

    You’re right, Japan does go before England, but I don’t see Japan knocking out the fleet off India.

    You’re talking about what can be done, vs what most people would do.

    No, I am talking about what should be done. What most people do is not relevant.

    It would require moving the aircraft carrier to SZ 37 to hit the destroyer with any fighters.  If Japan did move their fleet to off Burma then I’d adapt to defending against a KEF strategy and play aggressively with the US to move against Japan.  That looks like it would be a ‘take out India’ strategy with Japan which would be successful, but you’d be cash poor focusing on India vs taking territories or sinking the American fleet so there is a tradeoff.

    I am afraid this is also incorrect. You can take east indies and borneo, destroy most of china,sink the USA battleship, sink the west coast dest+trans, sink the phillipines fleet, blow up burma and kwangtun, and destroy the indian fleet. All of this quite cleanly and simply.

    I’ve read a couple of battle reports, but I’ve never seen Japan their fleet to that sea zone.  Japan has a lot to do J1, I don’t see it as high priority to take out that fleet.

    Another thing, when E1 counterattacks and takes Egypt back, if I1 attacks with everything they have they could take Egypt back, but I don’t think they’d be walking in, they would take heavy casualties…  If England moved their bomber to south Africa E1 then they could throw that in to the African battles.  Then, with the transport there could be another counterattack E2 using the transport and bomber, but it would depend on how the dice went.

    Again, all of this depends on Japan not sinking the Indian fleet. You say they have too much to do. I suggest they can achieve just about everything if they want to. Have a look at the board.


  • Interesting discussion, I certainly agree Gibraltar fleet (sz12) and Egypt is a go for Germany. Japan WILL start-off very strong and I’ve found that a South African IC is the only safe place to build an IC for UK. You HAVE TO have Africa at least in part as UK or your production will be measly. So the only other option to a South Africa IC is a maximized Africa attack by USA.

    For Germany:
    sz12-> attack with 2 subs and 1 ftr
    Egypt-> attack with 2 inf, 1 art, 2 arm, 1 bmb
    Then use Italian navy to take Egypt+Transjordan and help out vs. Caucasus.

    For Allies:
    Either:
    South Africa IC+invasions of Scandinavia by UK, USA focus on Italy+bombers-> both D-day after Africa/Italy secure.
    or
    All-out US attack on Africa+Italy, UK focus on bombers + D-day.

    I haven’t seen an India IC defended yet so I’m not sure about that!


  • @Alair:

    You’re right, Japan does go before England, but I don’t see Japan knocking out the fleet off India.

    You’re talking about what can be done, vs what most people would do.  It would require moving the aircraft carrier to SZ 37 to hit the destroyer with any fighters.  If Japan did move their fleet to off Burma then I’d adapt to defending against a KEF strategy and play aggressively with the US to move against Japan.  That looks like it would be a ‘take out India’ strategy with Japan which would be successful, but you’d be cash poor focusing on India vs taking territories or sinking the American fleet so there is a tradeoff.

    I’ve read a couple of battle reports, but I’ve never seen Japan their fleet to that sea zone.  Japan has a lot to do J1, I don’t see it as high priority to take out that fleet.

    Another thing, when E1 counterattacks and takes Egypt back, if I1 attacks with everything they have they could take Egypt back, but I don’t think they’d be walking in, they would take heavy casualties…  If England moved their bomber to south Africa E1 then they could throw that in to the African battles.  Then, with the transport there could be another counterattack E2 using the transport and bomber, but it would depend on how the dice went.

    If there is one thing that any decent Japanese player will always do is kill that DD+trn for the coast of India!! All other attacks can be ignored, but that one is a clear must. I would walk away straight from the game if I would be Germany and my axis partner would not attack those ships……


  • No, killing the chinese fighter is the most important. You cannot rebuy it etc etc …


  • Actually from a tactical point of view those ships are more important. However it’s a moot point, since both the ships and the ftr will die on J1.


  • @rockrobinoff:

    A UK bomber+fighter+cruiser+destroyer versus an Italian battleship+2 cruisers is about a 55% UK win  (netting a transport as well) and 65% to kill just the warships…

    Our group noticed this too.

    @rockrobinoff:

    …The only problem with option a is that it fails 25% of the time. Not a brilliant prospect, especially if you are better than your opponent, and hope to grind out a long and sure win.

    But we concluded the probability of actually losing the fleet in this case is only 15.125 per cent (65% x 25%).  Although I am new to A&A:50, my experience with A&A games is that playing too cautiously can be folly.  Sometimes you have to give your opponent a fifteen per cent chance for a lucky break - often a much better chance than that.  If you wait only for plays with more than an 85 per cant success rate, you’re probably never going to grind anything out.  It would be like playing Texas Hold 'em and waiting for pocket aces.

    Furthermore, if you are so much better than your opponent that you don’t even want to give them a 15 per cent shot, you can probably win even if they do sink the Mediterranean fleet (should they even make that play).

    That said, although I think 84.875 per cent is enough to make option a sound, a higher probability would of course be better.  Italian fleet aside, I’m not sure how much worse attacking sea zone twelve is versus your next best option.  Basically, I recommend you attack Egypt no matter what, but that you don’t sacrifice much for sea zone twelve.  If you think sea zone twelve is almost as good a target as sea zones two or nine anyway, go for it!


  • Well, the Allies are strong, it’s just about how to crush the Axis…

    Here’s what I’m going to try next game;

    R1, move 4 infantry from Caucaus to Persia.
    (counterattack the foolish Germans if they attacked Karelia in G1)
    Japan goes…
    E1, move the 2 fighters and infanty and tank to Karelia.
    E1, build IC on India (still haven’t decided about Africa)
    R2, move 4 infantry from Persia to India.
    J2 … if they attack India they will lose (I think)
    E2, build stuff on India.

    Next I’m sure people will say I’ll lose Caucaus if I do that G2, well… I don’t think so…

    Karelia will be safe with the extra English 2 fighters, infantry and tank.
    Caucaus will have 6 infantry on it (2 from Kazakh and 4 production) for G2, I think it will hold, if not then Russia will be able to counterattack, and will still have the tank from England helping out in Karelia if they had to counterattack a Karelia G1 move.

    Ta-dah!  All is right in the world, the allies should fare better now.

    I want to test it out.


  • @Alair:

    Well, the Allies are strong, it’s just about how to crush the Axis…

    Here’s what I’m going to try next game;

    R1, move 4 infantry from Caucaus to Persia.
    (counterattack the foolish Germans if they attacked Karelia in G1)
    Japan goes…
    E1, move the 2 fighters and infanty and tank to Karelia.
    E1, build IC on India (still haven’t decided about Africa)
    R2, move 4 infantry from Persia to India.
    J2 … if they attack India they will lose (I think)
    E2, build stuff on India.

    Yeah, I considered that strategy too for UK and Russia. The extra 4 infantry from Russia will not be enough however if Japan commits fully to the attack on India.

    Japan’s India invasion force on J2 could consist of:

    9 infantry
    1 artillery
    4 fighters
    1 tank
    1 cruiser (off shore bombardment)

    That’s from memory though so don’t hold me to that. I’d have to re-examine the board to be sure.

    If I’m playing UK I like the idea of an Indian IC but pulling it off is tough. I think you can build an Australian IC (on E2) after Japan takes India however. Japan would likely have to pull it’s entire invasion army off India to have a shot at capturing Australia reinforced by American fighters on J3.


  • This discussion has gone from the Med to the Pacific!  :)

    Anyone ever contemplate a Russian bomber R1?

    Keeps Japan honest with having to protect a transport (only) grab in east indies
    or projects power into Manchuria in conjunction with a 7 inf stack in buryatia.


  • @allies_fly:

    Anyone ever contemplate a Russian bomber R1?

    Soviets should buy 1 figh for both R1 and R2, so I guess you can spend 2 more IPCs for a bomber instead. I prefer convert 1 inf into a tank, but that’s a matter of tastes

  • Moderator

    Has anyone tried to take out all the UK ships?

    Sz 2 - bb, trn vs. 1 sub, 1 ftr, 1 bom
    Sz 9 - dd, trn vs. 1 sub
    Sz 12 - dd, ca vs. 2 ftrs

    You can still take out the Sz 6 ship and I don’t think this messes up Egy, if you were going to do that and sz 2 anyway.  Obviously sz 9 and 12 are a bit dicey but you could really cripple the UK interms of transporting units for a rd or 2.  Just wondering if anyone has seen this.


  • I think I prefer secure z2 and z12, but agreed, killing all is powerful. A thing about z6: if germans kill the dd but uk makes 1 hit, I think I would kill the cruiser, becuase the sub cannot be hit by aircraft (or course, It would be needed rolling z12 first for being sure of this). A alive sub in z6 makes any naval purchase with UK1 very dangerous.

    Oh, long range aircraft can give you a additional fig. Then, you could try kill everything, or even making a try in z10


  • @DarthMaximus:

    Has anyone tried to take out all the UK ships?

    Sz 2 - bb, trn vs. 1 sub, 1 ftr, 1 bom
    Sz 9 - dd, trn vs. 1 sub
    Sz 12 - dd, ca vs. 2 ftrs

    You can still take out the Sz 6 ship and I don’t think this messes up Egy, if you were going to do that and sz 2 anyway.  Obviously sz 9 and 12 are a bit dicey but you could really cripple the UK interms of transporting units for a rd or 2.  Just wondering if anyone has seen this.

    If you open like that in every Axis game I don’t see one getting high up in a ladder. In other words, it’s fun to try but don’t expect consistent good results. SZ9 and SZ 12 are risky, plus I do think this messes up Egypt since you can’t bring the bmb in to Egypt like this.


  • @DarthMaximus:

    Has anyone tried to take out all the UK ships?

    Sz 2 - bb, trn vs. 1 sub, 1 ftr, 1 bom
    Sz 9 - dd, trn vs. 1 sub
    Sz 12 - dd, ca vs. 2 ftrs

    You can still take out the Sz 6 ship and I don’t think this messes up Egy, if you were going to do that and sz 2 anyway.  Obviously sz 9 and 12 are a bit dicey but you could really cripple the UK interms of transporting units for a rd or 2.  Just wondering if anyone has seen this.

    Assuming you get good dice


  • and what about using the german ca from Sz5 to take out the dd in Sz6, that leaves you with an extra fighter for Sz12


  • i really don’t think pulling the German fleet out of the their fjord is such a good idea. if they do get destroyed (either by losing the first battle, or being sunk by UK’s airforce once they’re split-up) then Germany’s just made a lot more territory that needs to be defended

    i know i wouldn’t want a UK fleet parking at Germany’s door-step


  • Managed to kill most of the UK fleet and kept my ca in Sz6 but then lost the ca to the russian sub. First strike is just to much…
    The first thought was to divert the UK air to Sz6 so my transport would live another turn. Did not work… :-(


  • Again I still just do not see the need for Egypt G1. I think this is just more of a hold over from the older AA games.

    My personal preference is to send 2 SS 1 FGT 1 BMB to SZ12, subs for fodder. I use the med Transport to reinforce Libya. So what if the UK fighter and tank in Egypt live. It isn’t like this can’t be taken care of either on Italy 1, Germany 2, or Italy 2.

    So what if the UK builds an IC in India and flies the fighter there and sends the Egypt tank that way. I also do not see where Japan has to bust its guts just to take it out on J2. Yes the UK may take Burma, so what? After J2 China should be unable to produce infantry, the Pacific money islands (except New Zealand) should be yours, and Australia should be as well, to give you your 3rd NO and take away 1 of the UK’s. Once all this has been done, on J2 mind you, Japan can set its sights on comfortably taking India when it is dang good and ready to with the proper resources.


  • @a44bigdog:

    Once all this has been done, on J2 mind you, Japan can set its sights on comfortably taking
    India when it is dang good and ready to with the proper resources.

    Well, I wont go so far to say that Egypt is a must, but that tank and fighter with a little bit of Russian help could easily translate into an India stays allied on J2. To my mind, that is a disaster - meaning a whole extra turn that the Russians get to build guys. Protracted wars dont favour the axis - speed speed speed.

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