I completely agree that the cause of the plague really is unimportant to the development of the story, I was just curious what you thought it was since they claim that it can be figured out. Actually, the ambiguity allowed the story to branch out…there wouldn’t be Dr. Mann’s father storyline, or the Sektauket ring or whatever the hell they were called, etc.,etc.
And that was why I really liked the story, it was so easy to connect with, down to earth yet very entertaining. It took a gritty look and what could be and didn’t flinch.
I don’t think 355 would have made light of Yorick stressing over shooting another human being, even in self defense. She gave him the gun and knew that it may have to happen some day. She knew that he needed a suicide intervention, so she obviously cared about and apprised his emotional and mental well being. Probably what planted the seed in both of them to bring about a mutual love.
And we also see them later on acting more like each other. She does and gets dolled up, and gives up her gun. Yorick makes an exciting “last stand” but knows that more violence was not going to solve anything.
And most of all, I think there is much wisdom in that book. It just nails life in general, but doesn’t forget to stop and laugh about it.
Sorry to hear about your anguish and hope you find some respite. I don’t know if you know where I stand, but I find war appalling, but I accept that it will happen, just that I find it even more horrendous to send people into a nightmare and then not follow up with the consequences of that. If you ever feel letting some of that out in a PM to me might help ya, feel free to do so.
Oh, and back to the comic…I couldn’t really stand reading the travelling performers parts again. I found that to be really boring and divergent.
I agree with you that 355 wouldn’t have taken light of Yorick’s situation. I was just using that as an example as to how she could have handled the situation. Sorry I should have included that point.
I do like how the story line had hidden parables. I also liked how they added humor by using the English language as a medium. (For example naming his monkey Ampersand) Yorick having an intricate knowledge of the English language was a nice touch since he also had the smart-ass factor on his side.
I would also have to agree with you that the rendezvous in Paris seemed to be the best part of the story. It was almost a Lord of The Rings kind of reunion that brought every ones individual story full circle.
I think they could have ended it there. But like you said I liked how Yorick “escaped” at the very end. I also liked the last few frames where they just showed people doing what people do. Riding on busses walking in the parks. It was an easy and effective way to show that life went on. People just took it one day at a time.
Well lets not get started on the war that can only lead to politics. I just think to some degree every one can agree that good and bad comes from it. (Just to prove that good does come from war look up the origins of psychology in the WWI era reference studies on shell shock, Penicillin and nuclear power from WWII and lastly lookup prosthetic limb technology from the current Iraq war.) The bad is paid for all up front the good will benefit mankind for decades to come.
I think that until mankind makes a huge drastic change either from evolution or some kind of successful intervention that mankind will always have war. With the way human beings are right now Plato’s republic can’t exist.
I agree with you about the traveling performers. It just felt like they threw it in as filler, but I did like that they followed up with the graphic novel that Yorick was reading that just kind of added to the “Lost” / “Hero’s” feel they were going for with every one being connected.
Also thank you for your offer to listen to my crazy babble. I try not to dwell on it. In the past year or so I have found that the eastern medicine of meditation and Tie Chi / Yoga type exercise to be the most helpful. They teach that thoughts are of things that have happened or of things that will happen. If you focus on controlling your thoughts to what is going on right in the here and now on things like moving poses or sitting still with meditation that you can better control what you think about and avoid unpleasant thoughts you don’t want to think about.
It helps me regulate and control my both my thoughts and my emotions as apposed to letting them control me. I think that some (not all) emotional illnesses can be healed this way. Like an alcoholic or an addict I have to make the conscious effort to not participate with things that will lead to a relapse. But like when you brake a bone it will never be 100% again, but that doesn’t mean you won’t get full range of motion back or even become stronger with exercise.
I don’t put a lot of stock in psychologists or physiatrists mostly because of my bad experiences with the ones I dealt with in the US Army. I think they should be more like teachers. They don’t teach in the way a conventional teacher would in a classroom setting per say. They like great teachers will create a scenario where students will learn things for them selves.
All people can learn a concept take balancing a checkbook for example. With the proper instruction every one can understand the concept but not every one can perform the task. Does that make any sense?
LT
Another question: I loved Y and have started reading it again from the begining. I can’t waite till my wife finishes reading it.
Do you know of any other graphic novels that are on this wave lenght? I know you posted some above but I am more interested in ones like this that semi-sci-fi but a “this is how things could be if…” setting.
Also I wanted to point out the new “Battlestar Galactica.” I think it falls into this catagory. They deal with issues like water and food supplies, black markets creating monopolies, the colapse of the government and how they rebuild it. They also have one story line where there is a sickness going around and a religious group refuses to get the proper treatments b/c it goes agienst their belifes.
It also covers some interesting aspects of religion. You will see a lot of hidden Masonic, Jewish and Classical Greek mythology interwoven throughout.
Worth a look.
LT
Well, that’s very true and at that point in the story we really don’t know anything about 355 except that she’s a highly trained special ops girl. I wish we got to hear her name, but that’s not important and at least Y did.
The book as a whole was very smart and had high brow humor, and I really appreciated that. But it was very real too. It was like the total package! The blend of Y’s naivety, determination, passion, brains, and smartass side made for a great character. The mystery of 355 complimented it well because we knew just about nothing from her, and everything about him.
I do have much love for the final issue, as much as I like the conclusion in Paris. What happened after Paris and that the world was back to the same problems (Iran and the nuke, countries were still independent and not living in harmony) but also the same life, albeit without men. I enjoyed seeing the developments in the story, seeing Mann’s work, finding out that Beth and Hero are a couple (talk about weird), Amp’s death, and how Y really changed after 355 died. That issue talked about a lot in with such little to actually say. I feel like I’m missing something on the last flashback at the plane crash, but I guess they wanted to end the memory of Y & 355 on a good note. Oh, and I thought Beth #2 would have been a great woman for Y…she was very strong, smart, living in reality…but he was not the same man after 355 was gone. You can see that cynicism in the conversation with his clone. It’s almost as if he’d gone through war himself. I know I said this before, but check out the buildings in the Paris of the future…no more skyscrapers but a very telling design. :lol:
I am somewhat familiar with the Eastern religions and thoughts. I have some friends that are more serious about it, so they regularly do yoga or something similarly spiritual. I have learned a lot in this past year that for the most part, you don’t control anything except how you react to the world. Very hard to accept that and even more so to get to a place where you really feel at peace, but it’s worth the journey. I was more or less forced into it, have had a rough ride, but have grown from it.
I don’t consider it babble, and I know what it’s like to feel like you can’t do anything but talk about the experience. I know letting it out is a good way to relieve some pressure, but from my own experience I got the best response from mostly strangers (say, internet friends) because they had a more objective view on things and I didn’t feel like I was being a whiner to my friends.
I’m not sure how the Army psychologist and psychiatrist operate, but I know that it takes a lot of willpower to attempt treatment for any mental/emotional ills. It’s not that we want to suffer, it’s just hard to change yourself and more so when people are doing it in such a way that you feel being you is wrong.
Frimmel gave some great suggestions, I have a good feeling he is better versed in the recommendations. I have been intending to read the Watchmen, which definitely sounds what you are looking for. Sandman & Preacher are also biggies, but I don’t think it matches your criteria.
I will again praise Gantz, unfortunately you have to buy them and can’t them online (except maybe bittorrent). It’s not so much a “what if” but “maybe your reality isn’t what you think it is.” It’s much more graphic than Y, but even more gritty and unrelenting about commenting on social issues or humans and emotion. If you can’t take gore or some nudity avoid it, but it is sci fi and always raises the ante. It’s currently up to something like 380 issues, lol.
I forgot about new details for the movie.
Shia LaBeouf will play Yorick.
Alicia Keys will play 355.
It’s slated to be out in 2009, but no specific date. It also will be condensed (how could you fit everything in the movie???), but I’ve heard talk of interest in making more than 1 movie.
I don’t think everything will translate well, but I’d love to see how they do.
What did you think about Lt. Gen. what’s her name? I just kind of had her pegged as a military extremist. I never would have thought she needed a suicide intervention. I felt like an idiot when Y said that. Duh he did the same thing (smack self on forehead).
Then there were all of Dr. Mann’s clones. It was cool how since they were all of different stages of their life that how they dressed and looked reflected Dr. Mann at those stages of her life. I also thought it was interesting how what’s her name Dr. Mann’s girlfriend said they didn’t have the drive Dr. Mann did because they didn’t have the hate fueled competition with there / her father.
I felt like there were story lines that were introduces that didn’t leas to any where, like that nun looking for the new pope. Maybe it was just me looking for foreshadowing that wasn’t there. Also I felt like there were other story lines that could have been followed up toward the end. I mean they showed the garbage truck supermodel but they didn’t show the former woman inmates in their Mayberry town.
Over all I loved the book don’t get me wrong but I thought that the woman would have done more “urban renewal.” What I mean by that is with larger cities I would have expected them to tear down rundown neighborhoods in places that had that ability. I mean think about it you now have about half of the populous you did before the plague. If they all were moving into places like the Hilton why would you need crapy apartment building in Harlem, Detroit and Compton areas?
On the other hand I’m glad they didn’t carry on so far as to make the story stupid like the way star wars has with all their groups of novels going on about the grandchildren of Huan Solo and Princess Leah. Take the Simpson the show has been on for a few decades now no one ages? Don’t get me wrong I like that show but Y is going for realism it couldn’t pull that off.
Lastly about the movie, I already think I am going to be disappointed. Little things are going to piss me off about it. Like if Dr. Mann is like really over weight. Yeah not a big deal but it just wouldn’t be the same. I’m still going to go see it I can’t wait.
Switching gears here… The Army’s medical corps did meet the needs it had before the war “just fine” (using the term loosely of course). Once you get a group that size it’s hard to not let bureaucracy take control. On September 11th my Battalion had like 530 soldiers in it. We had soldiers in 5 different countries on that day. So to have to muster troops to deploy wasn’t easy since we were already short staffed.
I’m sure we weren’t the only unit like that in the Army. After troops deployed there wasn’t any real way to increase the number of medical personnel to compliment the new ratio of care that was needed. Walter Reed Army Medical Center was out dated before the second gulf war now that we needed to use it that just brought the shortcomings into public view.
Mental health is a relatively new concept. Up until recently we didn’t have the medical abilities we have today. Even in Vietnam it wasn’t easy keeping soldier alive. No that we can and we are getting good at it mental health is a big concern.
It’s the same thing as cancer. I’m sure it was around 100 years ago but people didn’t live to be as old as they do now for the most part. OSHA didn’t come into being until 1970 so you very well could have been killed at work when you were 45 – 50 at met the median age for that time and place.
I hate to side with the government on this one but how could anyone have anticipated this? Yeah Vietnam should have been a wake up call but lets say for sake of argument that you send 100 soldiers to Vietnam 50 died there and 25 of the survivors now have mental health issues. Continuing with our example say 100 soldiers go to Iraq or Afghanistan 25 die there because we have the medical ability to keep them alive and now that we didn’t have before leaving half of those survivors (37.5 soldiers) with mental health issues.
I found this link
http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/01/29/y-the-last-man-movie-to-be-a-trilogy/
It’s kind of dated but It said that the movie will only cover the first 14 issues. That will leave issues 15 - 60 untouched.
LT
Jermofoot,
What do you think caused the plague?
LT
Sorry for my absence and late reply, I have been very busy as of late.
About Alter. I feel like she represented the highly emotional (or crazy, lol) women that we all know and love. And yes, I think the stress of the new world threw her off her rocker, but she used chaos to fuel more and satisfy her own selfish desires. When she was willing to kill Y (and the other surviving men) instead of working in a positive manner for the survivors and help save the dying world, I took it as something deeper was fueling her decisions. It did not quite surprise me that she was wanting to die, I just didn’t think that was her main motive.
Yeah, I liked the variance of Mann’s clones (I still crack up at her last name), especially the “punk phase” one. But Y actually pointed out that they wouldn’t be a copy of Mann except genetically, throwing his thoughts on the nature vs. nurture concept.
I do feel like there was some filler story arcs, but it’s all good and was used to develop the main characters and show the “what if” possibilities of this new world.
I think part of the series was to give an analysis of what would happen post-disaster in the world. Or to address the argument that men have run the world and screwed it up, but if women had the chance it would be a utopia. The idea presented (in my mind) is that people screw up and your sex doesn’t matter one bit. I try to imagine the chaos if half the world up and died, being indiscriminate to race, creed, religion, status, etc., and I think it got it right that world would be plunged in turmoil.
I enjoyed the reality of the series (barring the plague itself) and agree that it was good to start and end it rather than making it an ongoing story. Part of what made it good. The Simpsons, while good, does have the problem of running out of ideas and making a definitive stopping point in Y kept us yearning for more but satisfying our taste for a good story.
I’m just wondering how the movie will pull things off, and how they will change the storyline. I’m having doubts about how well it would be emulated. But hey, if they look at the movie as a “cover” of a good story and make some decent interpretation, it will add to the Y universe and hopefully be for the better. We will have to wait and see.
It sad to say that the casualties of war are highly complex, and those that lose the most perhaps find peace. The survivors get to deal with the mess. Mental issues, while having been studied for ages, are still not entirely understood, so while you mention we are much better at preventing full loss, we take damage of another kind. I do think our health care for veterans, or even our citizens in general, is pretty messed up. For all those calling for war, I wish they had a chance to look at it in the face and realize we are not taking full responsibility for what can and does happen in a highly stressful environment. This is one reason why I say send in the troops as a last possible resort. The military is a tool perhaps, but it is still full of living, feeling human beings that aren’t something you can use and dispose of.
Perhaps in the future we will know what our brothers and sisters-in-arms require of us so that we may not neglect them ever again. For now I will stick with the idea that only when necessary will keep us out of the most trouble.
Ok, cause of the plague. I’m really undecided here, that’s why I’ve been trying to get thoughts from other readers. Let’s look at the possibilities (from Wiki):
Possible explanations include:
* The Amulet of Helene being removed from the nation of Jordan. The amulet’s owner warned that if it was ever taken from its homeland, it would create a tragedy greater than the Trojan War.
* The successful cloning of a human female (which renders the reproductive role of men unnecessary) caused the Earth to “course correct” itself and eliminate all males.
* A combination of Dr. Matsumori’s attempt to kill his daughter’s unborn clone fetus by injecting a capuchin monkey (Ampersand) with a toxin engineered to target the clone’s specific genetic code with a form of morphic resonance.
* The Culper Ring, who may have created a chemical agent designed to prevent women from conceiving male children. This agent was introduced into in China to cripple their economy, however, something went wrong, and the chemical agent instead killed males of all ages.
* The Earth cleansing herself of the Y chromosome, as the Amazons believe.
* Changes in the Dreamtime impacting normal reality, as believed by some Australian aboriginals and Beth.
None of these theories seem very plausible, although 2 stick out in my mind as the most likely: Dr. Matsumori’s toxin and the Culper Ring’s chemical agent.
It makes most sense that cloning has something to do with it: it is a key plot line in the story and is relied upon in the new world to survive. The man that was farthest along in the development of cloning had an obvious conflict with his daughter who was working on the same thing, so there is a motive. And is it by chance that he survived the plague? Not at all, I think. That’s where I would place my bet.
But your idea that all of these things are interconnected and co-causes is an interesting one. I’d look at that more but I’m out of time! Until the next discussion…
I think the movie is likely to be feminist pandering. Jermo hit on the essential message – people mess things up. I don’t see how they would ever let that through in a film. A simple one like a woman’s beauty is useless in a world without men will never make into the film.
While I would hope it would, and we might see enough folks ready for a shift in their woman good, man bad world view I’m not optimistic and fear the film would just be the women even more genius and badass taking care of a even more hapless, dweebish Yorrick. I can’t see them really embracing anything from the tale other than the story of a dweeb with survivor guilt who needs taken care of and saved.
Why did Yorrick survive the plague? Because he was too stupid to keep from getting shit on. I don’t see how Hollywood getting anything but women good-men bad from that.
Y does have messages about equality and a sense that men matter in the world but I don’t see Hollywood doing anything with this other than asking, “Who needs men?” And answering “No one.”
I think the movie is likely to be feminist pandering. Jermo hit on the essential message – people mess things up. I don’t see how they would ever let that through in a film. A simple one like a woman’s beauty is useless in a world without men will never make into the film.
While I would hope it would, and we might see enough folks ready for a shift in their woman good, man bad world view I’m not optimistic and fear the film would just be the women even more genius and badass taking care of a even more hapless, dweebish Yorrick. I can’t see them really embracing anything from the tale other than the story of a dweeb with survivor guilt who needs taken care of and saved.
Why did Yorrick survive the plague? Because he was too stupid to keep from getting sh*t on. I don’t see how Hollywood getting anything but women good-men bad from that.
Y does have messages about equality and a sense that men matter in the world but I don’t see Hollywood doing anything with this other than asking, “Who needs men?” And answering “No one.”
I’m sorry to say but I fear you might be right. I’m glad I own the novels and had a look into the true version before Hollywood corupts it.
LT
