UK as one economy

[General 6 Stars]

Then just keep India a minor factory and can’t up grade.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I might test this to see how well it works out. I wonder if the rule that India can only produce Infantry solves the issue?

[General 6 Stars]

Ya. As you probably know with HBG 39 game had a minor and could build 6 units but first three had to be inf. You could upgrade but then you’d have no money due to split economy’s but that’s why u could build 6 units instead of 3. Besides we figured out how to take Calcutta t3 every time.

[Caesar-Seriona]

1936 is a whole different kind of beast. I image if India can produce ten infantry a turn, that might stop Japan from taking India but it will not stop Italy from taking Egypt or Germany having so much freedom to crush USSR.

[General 6 Stars]

I meant 1st edition 39

[Caesar-Seriona]

Still HGB drove their game to be more realistic for both 36 and 39. G40 is a whole different beast. I think my method will work for G40.

[Tirano]

I think many of the others are correct in assessing that India would need to be bumped down to a minor IC. Others also mentioned making Canada its own separate power, however, what if Canada is added on to ANZAC?

[Caesar-Seriona]

@Tirano There is a Commonwealth build you can find somewhere on G40 about it, there is two different versions which merge ANZAC and Canada as the Commonwealth and then another variant that adds South Africa into the Commonwealth.

[taamvan]

@Tirano Yes I brought this up a couple of years ago–It gives grey more income, 6 more pieces and 2 factories and an “around the world strategy” where anzac can help in atlantic or pacific.

No one liked my idea. And it makes UKATL too weak with only 21-22 income.

[Tirano]

@taamvan

I think it would only work with a combined UK income.

[barnee]

@simon33

Yea you wouldn’t want to play it solo. Canada that is : )

I gave Canada a couple boosts in House Rules mod. Put a couple Canadian infantry in England too, which, if I remember right, CWO said was historically correct.

I think your Canadian addition Rocks personally : ) Although I’ve never tried the boosts in just the regular game, I think they’d make people think a bit. For a game or two anyway :)

[taamvan]

@barnee In “Armored Tactics” by Stackpole books, the author makes the argument that Canada had the most advanced understanding of armored warfare in the interwar period among the allies. The US attempted to design vehicles and tactics from scratch, but still ended up imitating the role of a traditional cavalry arm, whereas the British, despite their experience in WW1 drew the wrong lessons and adopted the french approach of 2 (or more) types of breakthrough tanks vs fortress tanks along with integration of these types within traditional infantry formations–both of which proved disastrous (for france). As we know, the germans focused the effect of their limited armor by creating mobile breakthrough mechanized divisions that could locally overwhelm and outmaneuver the penny packets of potentially better french tanks that were often bypassed or abandoned, because the French did not have the concept of an armored reserve.

All of this is a long winded way of saying that the Canadians need a special RAM tank unit to be a true representation of their potential. Even though the canadians did not produce many (any) of their own vehicles from scratch, they apparently (according to this source) were the only allies who drew the correct conclusions from the experience of WW1 and the German developments of the interwar period.

[JustLuthor]

I prefer to combine the UK economies, and make Canada/South Africa/ANZAC one power with three economies. Canada collects for the Americas, and Europe, South Africa collects for Africa, and the Middle East, and ANZAC collects for the rest of Asia, and Pacific islands. I feel like this breaks up UK enough that it doesn’t unbalance the game by combining UK economies, and brings Canada, and South Africa into the game as self ruling nations.

[Argothair]

SiredBlood has rules for a combined UK economy that work pretty well; basically there is a 20 IPC/turn spending cap in India, and otherwise you just combine the entire UK + Canada + India + South Africa into one economy, with ANZAC remaining separate. If you don’t like the 20 IPC/turn rule, you could replace the major IC in India with a pair of minor ICs, one in India and one in West India.

ANZAC is interesting as a separate power because ( a ) they have a core cluster of facilities & 2-IPC territories of Queensland, New South Wales, and New Zealand that are far enough away from Japan to be defensible, ( b ) they have economic interests like Java and New Guinea that are close enough to Japan to make for immediate conflict, ( c ) they can realistically get up to 20+ IPCs in many games, which gives them options beyond just sitting and turtling, and ( d ) they are a convenient ‘junior partner’ for the US Pacific Navy, which allows them to punch above their weight.

None of these are true for Canada except for ( a ). It’s easy to defend Ontario and Quebec, but Canada doesn’t have any economic interests that put them into immediate conflict with any Axis powers, they have no realistic path to get to 20+ IPCs, and the British Atlantic navy isn’t strong enough in this version of the game to need or want a junior partner. It might be possible to radically adjust the starting setup so that the English-speaking countries have a larger total Atlantic navy that is split up less favorably among UK & Canada so as to preserve roughly the same level of power, or to have a larger Canadian navy that serves as a sort of Allied bid, but you can’t just split Canada off as its own power without tilting the power balance further in favor of the Axis. Even if you do fix the balance issue, it’s not obvious that Canada is a strategically interesting power on this map. I am very pro-Canada and have great respect for Canada’s historical wartime contributions, and I think thematically it would be a lot of fun to play a Canadian power, but I don’t think it’s a realistic goal mechanically for this map and setup.

[General Veers]

Your points are well taken, Canada’s action early would be limited to mopping up the Atlantic of German subs (if they don’t lose what would become their sub and transport the first turn). They’d need a basic autonomy NO to pump their income and maybe they could get a reduced version of the UK’s no German subs bonus.

While they couldn’t do much once they land in UK or northern Africa they could open a few new angles going after Italy (would combine the turn with ANZAC’s). But I fear Canada’s best use would simply be to pump air units to UK/Russia from Quebec.

[Argothair]

Maybe Canada would be more interesting with the option to provide lend-lease! It gives them a reason to maintain a navy beyond just chasing German subs for the heck of it.

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33666/supply-token-for-lend-lease

[barnee]

Agree with Argo. Thematically it is a lot of fun to play with Canada. The map just looks so much cooler imo.

I use a lot of house rules which allows Canada to make more of an impact. I won’t go into all the details, but a few are:

Gives plus 1 PU to British Columbia. Newfoundland Labrador and Yukon Territory are now worth 1 PU. Yukon isn’t impassable, although you could leave it as such.

A 2 dollar National Objective if SZs 117 and 123 are Allied controlled.

Also give them a couple Infantry and a Tac in Alberta and 2 Infantry in UK. I haven’t really tried this with the OOB setup so idk what type of impact it would have, but UK makes a lot less so you need the Boost.

I also use a cheaper DD and a 2 dollar Militia unit which allows for more builds with their limited income combined with some more dough for UK. Also several other things that give them more to do.
Basically some more dough and some more dudes is what’s needed.

I’ve seen a few people play simon’s mod but idk how it played out for them.

What usually happens for me is Canada chases uboats early and if their trprt survives can get a couple guys into action.
Mid to late game they land some dudes to boost USA/UK conquests in W Europe and can potentially kill weakened TTys the US/UK didn’t take or ones Italy successfully counter attacked.

Can also set up a shuck to UK. Important to try and max your builds with your limited production.

At any rate, I find them fun to play :)

[General 6 Stars]

Ya Argo is right on it. My game has UK Canada S Africa one economy and India 2 Nd economy with Anzac on there own. Yes I to have 3 Anzac territories worth 2 icps where in norm games Anzac can get to 20 to 30 icps and help with US fleet and also taking Java which is huge in game now with Dutch islands counting for victory points due to oil and rubber.
India also can build 2 minor factories and get good money on first turn due to grabbing Sumatra and Borneo if japan messes up T1.
Anyway I know it’s not g40 my game but you could use these ideas. Don’t see no reason why Fec can have own economy.
With Canada as Barney said younjust need to take away Uk London money and give some to Canada. Always a good spot for navy if Ger subs around London but as Argo says may not work in g40.

[Faramir]

I think this would balance the game so there would be no need for a bid and make it simpler. Have the U.K. as one economy with the capital in London. Downgrade the factory in India to a minor factory. Remove ANZAC and add them to the U.K.

[simon33]

I think two UK economies is awesome and I have no idea why anyone wants to revert to a single economy.

The post above is an interesting exploration of why Canada as its own power isn’t much fun to play. In the Canada mod at least you get an no for clearing the Atlantic of German subs. Getting fighters to Moscow would be very difficult unless the allies have Scandinavia. If the axis don’t go sea lion, Canada doesn’t have much to do.

Honestly, I’m more worried that UK has to buy all inf turn 1 or sea lion becomes too easy. Perhaps that isn’t a problem in other people’s minds.