Evolution and the Eye

[dezrtfish]

It’s also slightly smaller text, no I’m not omnipotent just potent…

[Smacktard]

This thread took an odd turn. I was mainly interested in if anyone had heard of a theory how a light-sensitive spot could evolve. The fossil record is very strong evidence that evolution occurs, but a good theory needs to answer all reasonable objections.

[frimmel]

@Smacktard:

This thread took an odd turn. I was mainly interested in if anyone had heard of a theory how a light-sensitive spot could evolve. The fossil record is very strong evidence that evolution occurs, but a good theory needs to answer all reasonable objections.

No it doesn’t.

A good theory needs to explain a preponderance of the facts. When a theory such as gravity for instance answers all the ‘reasonable objections’ it becomes a natural law. And natural laws will get reexamined should new facts come to light.

That we do not have all the facts of how eyes came to be does not make evolution somehow ‘less.’ That sort of thing is a red herring of the creationists. A misunderstanding of the way science works. An objection of those who think evolution means ‘man came from monkeys’ (it does not by the way.)

Theories are used to explain facts. That you don’t have all the facts does not make the theory less sound.

[frimmel]

I would think the vast array of different eyes would strengthen your belief that evolution is valid. Human eyes and bat eyes are very different yet they are both eyes correct? Just the differences amongst the raptor birds don’t do it for you?

That science has not been able to determine what an eye evolved from does not mean that eyes haven’t changed to give a species a survival advantage does it?

There was an episode of the Highlander TV series. Macleod was a spy in WW2 or just before smuggling a scientist out of Germany. The scientist says, “You don’t think science knows the answers do you Herr Macleod?”

“I don’t think science knows the right questions.”

Make sure you understand the question science is asking before you say that it is providing a wrong answer.  :wink:

[frimmel]

Here are a couple of things on eye evolution I found interesting.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20050822230316data_trunc_sys.shtml

http://evolutionarynovelty.blogspot.com/2008/07/box-jellies-and-red-herring-of-eye.html

[frimmel]

This one was interesting but not about eyes so much.

[666]

@frimmel:

Here are a couple of things on eye evolution I found interesting.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20050822230316data_trunc_sys.shtml

http://evolutionarynovelty.blogspot.com/2008/07/box-jellies-and-red-herring-of-eye.html

stop trying to enlighten people Frim. This should be a place of fun & ignorance. No learning allowed.

[losttribe04]

Thanks Frimmel that was interesting.

LT

[losttribe04]

I understand the concept of evolution but I don’t understand where the ameba came from.

Evolution would say that over generations of organizims they change to adapt to their enviornment and to improve survivability rates.  So where life come from in the first place?

Don’t get me wrong I don’t claim to be smart or educated so maybe I was just sick the day at school when they went from the big bang how the universe and planets were made and came back to day they started in on evolution.

LT

[frimmel]

@JWW:

@frimmel:

Here are a couple of things on eye evolution I found interesting.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20050822230316data_trunc_sys.shtml

http://evolutionarynovelty.blogspot.com/2008/07/box-jellies-and-red-herring-of-eye.html

stop trying to enlighten people Frim. This should be a place of fun & ignorance. No learning allowed.

:roll:

I always think learning is fun.  :-)

@LT04:

I understand the concept of evolution but I don’t understand where the ameba came from.

Evolution would say that over generations of organizims they change to adapt to their enviornment and to improve survivability rates.  So where life come from in the first place?

Don’t get me wrong I don’t claim to be smart or educated so maybe I was just sick the day at school when they went from the big bang how the universe and planets were made and came back to day they started in on evolution.

LT

Well I can’t claim to understand it all myself. I also don’t think any scientist can say for certain how it started and what exactly it started with. I just have frustration with the attitude that since the theory doesn’t answer ALL the questions that it is wrong or that it is somehow not an explanation for the known facts.

I strongly dislike when confronted with the idea that someone is dismissing the science because they don’t agree with the implications of that science.

[losttribe04]

I’m not saying it was / or is wrong I just ment I honestely don’t know how they made the leap from the universe to life.

LT

[cystic crypt]

@Smacktard:

This thread took an odd turn. I was mainly interested in if anyone had heard of a theory how a light-sensitive spot could evolve. The fossil record is very strong evidence that evolution occurs, but a good theory needs to answer all reasonable objections.

i am kind of an “intelligent design” type-guy.  Don’t get me wrong - i am a scientist (M. Sc. Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, M.D.), but i also have some deeprooted and deeply contemplated religious (Christian) beliefs.

Having disposed of my credentials/biases . . .

In organic chemistry the use of “light” - i.e. different waveforms causes changes in the conformation of molecules to different energy-potential states (homo and luna states).  This facilitates organic chemical reactions and is useful in a laboratory-type setting (note - i am going back 14 years in my education for this). 
If we look at chlorophil - this is an excellent example of where light causes a conformational change in a molecule resulting in a move against entropy - i.e. the move from carbon dioxide/water/oxygen - to a more stable carbohydrate - cellulose etc.
If we look at the eye, there are molecules - rhodopsin and iodopsin being two more common - that when exposed to light (or a given wavelength - depending on the protein in question) will break down into smaller componant molecules.  These will then go out into the wide world triggering a chain of events that leads to your perception of an image of various color and intensity.

So irrespective of the historical evidence of a figure named Jesus (why would Nero persecute the followers of a non-entity just 40 years after said non-entity was supposed to have died? - widely recorded),
i hope that this provides the missing piece/peace that you were enquiring about.
Cheers,
cc

[Emperor_Taiki]

Eyeballs? intelligent design?

Try telling that to Harold Godwinson

More like mentally retarded design, even if you don’t understand evolution, why would God put eyeballs in such a vulnerable position

But what would I know, i wouldn’t have flooded the world either.

[cystic crypt]

so where - outside of a skull that is pretty much built like a vault - would you have put them?

[Guest]

Not sure about the eyes, but I think moving the playground away from the sewers might have been a good idea  :lol:

[cystic crypt]

@ncscswitch:

Not sure about the eyes, but I think moving the playground away from the sewers might have been a good idea   :lol:

classic engineering joke!

functionally speaking, however, why not move all of your sewage out of the same pipes?