Yes; you are right.
Kamikaze on carriers.
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@Caesar:
Besides with your logic, carriers taking two hits helps a lot but now you left your carriers in the open sitting by themselves in some SZ making them nice sweet targets.
Maybe the US player has another Set of Ftr’s who can land in them if needed.
Maybe the Anzak player does…A bigger question here would be: why are the carriers moving into the hostile sea zone during the combat movement phase? The kamikazes can only be used during that phase. So use the aircraft during combat, then during the non-combat movement phase, move the carriers into the zone. Carriers should rarely, if ever, be victim of kamikaze attacks in this game.
Sometimes carriers are needed to soak hits. You don’t have to continuously maintain a landing spot and can remove a valid landing spot in this way, as well as by Kamikazes.
True but why would the other guy then use his kamis on your carriers if there are better targets available?
I normaly use them on cruisers-destroyers as it removes dice from my opponent as well as hits.
The less dice the other guy throws the less hits he can have.Excellent SH, a reason to use up Kamis on CV’s could be if Japan sees the Allied player is coming with roll waves after you and you would like to prevent UK Pac or Anzak to use them as a landingspot. Other then that i also would choose mainly CRs and DDs as Targets.
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Iam starting to think that you guys do not know the real power of the Kamikaze.
The real power of the Kamikaze is that it stops shore bombardment.
Lets use this as an example.
USA decided to go into SZ6 and invade Japan.
USA pushes all in and in a grand fashion pushes their units onto the shores of Japan. The USA has 3 BB and 5 CA and they are counting on those units to push the odds in their favor, DD and CV in the SZ do not matter.
Japan launches 1 Kamikaze into the SZ. It does, what ever it does on its epic 1-2 roll. It did its job though regardless of if he hit or not. Now the USA cannot shore bombard.
The role of the Kamikaze is to protect all Japan islands from assault by denying the invader from using shore bombardment. In essence Japan can protect it self from 6 invasions if you use just 1 Kamikaze per invasion.
So, the power of the Kamikaze is that it forces, lets say the USA, from having to invade islands with enough force by just using ground forces and any air assets they have in range.
The Kamikaze rules really beef up Japans defense of Japan, Phillipines and Iwo Jima IF Japan actually puts some garrison units on those key islands. Which, IMO, the vast majority of players refuse to do. The action is in China and India, no need to leave lets say, 6 INF on Iwo Jima or the Phillipines.
Lets take a look at the Japan homeland, the most common scenario. There are times during the game that the USA could jump from Hawaii to Japan with lets say 4inf and 4 art, plus 2 BB and 4 CA. Japan only has 6 IINF, 4 ART and 1 FTR. Well that is around a 50/50 battles with the shore bombardment. Now japan could scramble its FTR to SZ6 to defend the invasion and deny the shore bombardment but that really weakens the defense of Japan. That is where sending out just 1 Kamikaze comes into play.
It is a free move by Japan, they have 6 free Kamikaze strikes. So, the Kamikaze would deny the shore bombardment, the FTR stays on Japan to help in defense, the USA knows this and calculates the odds of the quick strike, caught them napping on the homeland plan and realizes it is a lost cause and does not invade.
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Stopping bombardments is cream on the top, not the real power of Kamikazes.
The most awesome use of Kamikazes I’m aware of is to frighten US CVs away from SZ6 after Japan building a DD there. Then you can reclaim the SZ with a weaker fleet coming back from the money islands.
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Stopping bombardments is cream on the top, not the real power of Kamikazes.
The most awesome use of Kamikazes I’m aware of is to frighten US CVs away from SZ6 after Japan building a DD there. Then you can reclaim the SZ with a weaker fleet coming back from the money islands.
Well then you have failed to realize the power of Midway Island.
USA parks 2 CV with 4 ftrs and the island has 2 Bombers and they can destroy any small fleet in SZ6 and the CV never have to move off of Midway. Kamikaze cannot stop this and the only real recourse is to divert 3 ftrs back to Japan to defend the home waters from USA air strikes into the SZ.
Midway island is a very powerful sea zone to project air power into SZ6.
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Japan has to fly 3 ftrs home? Big deal and so what.
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Japan has to fly 3 ftrs home? Big deal and so what.
Well, Japan most likely does not want to do that. Japan wants those ftrs on carriers or in China to crush India. That is why it is a big deal.
The #1 asset Japan has is air power, concentrated air power. If you can force Japan to diffuse that air power to cover all over the place then Japan losses its offensive punch in China/India.
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1-2 FTRs back home isn’t going to make or break Japan. And if you are leaving yourself open to multiple land invasions, it might serve you better to have those FTRs back at home. Kamikaze does deter shore bombardments or simple attacks that open ocean allows, but it’s that threat of Kamikaze that usually results in unescorted transports or sub/air attacks only.
If I need to send all my CVs, then it’s an all in, but proper planning can usually make one expendable to absorb the hits like talked about. The FTRs on CVs only last the first round or two, after that, most of the opponents that kick my arse have FIC, Malay, or Yunan loaded. 1-2 FTRs North are left behind to defend Japan and Manchuria/Korea (pesky Russians!).
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1-2 FTRs back home isn’t going to make or break Japan. Â
Well, Japan starts with 2 FTRS in Japan.
So, are you saying you are fine just leaving them there on Turn 1 as home defense and not move them to China? Leave 2 Ftrs doing nothing, just in case?
of course not.
Every one moves all their air assets to south east asia for the Calcutta crush / push.
Making Japan having to move air assets back north is not what Japan wants to do.
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No, you send for your first 3 rounds, where the Allies can’t do dick, and then as strategy adjusts (Russians move close, Allied Fleet comes North), you have to consider having a couple FTRs back North to protect the shipyard production. If the Allied Fleet doesn’t move North at all and Russia abandons the borders to go to Moscow, then yes, the FTRs are utterly pointless. The US isn’t in position in the first two rounds to do much, unless Japan is totally out of position. Hence, why I say you can have the Fighter support move back, especially when your next carrier is ready to be built.
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Remember that Japan chooses the targets for their Kams so they might just ignore your carriers and go for your battleships and cruisers if they see an invasion coming.
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Just out of curiosity how do you split up your kami’s, and do you send all six? Say the US is attacking a kami zone with everything they have in a fight to the death. Do you target the capital ships sending say 2 kami’s at each capital ship, or 3? Or do you send them out to 6 different surface ships trying to take out as many dice as possible?
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@WILD:
Just out of curiosity how do you split up your kami’s, and do you send all six? Say the US is attacking a kami zone with everything they have in a fight to the death. Do you target the capital ships sending say 2 kami’s at each capital ship, or 3? Or do you send them out to 6 different surface ships trying to take out as many dice as possible?
So if US is attacking with
A
3 Battleships 4 4@4 = 12
3 Carriers 0 3@0 = 0
4 Cruisers 3 4@3 = 12
4 Destroyers 2 4@2 = 8
6 Figs 3 6@3 = 18
Total Attack = 50If you take out 4 cruisers and 2 Destroyers = 16 less on Attack = 34
Cost 64 icps for US just from 6 Kamis if they all hit.If you take out 3 Carriers = 0 on Attack = 50
Cost 48 icps for US. Now if Figs live and no where to land then it costs US another 60 icps.
Total cost for US is 108 icps.So you do have choices. Do you do the Cruiser-Dest Kami attack and hope Japan gets to the figs on defense rolls while the US attack value drops each round of battle ?
This will all depend also on what Japan has for Navy being attacked too.
Correct me if my numbers are wrong. -
2 games ago, I put up all 6 in the SZ 6 battle, 4 on a BB and 2 on a DD. I destroyed both, tipping the odds in my favor.
The anti-bombardment is best used to defend other targets like islands from the unaccompanied bombardments.
There are plenty of times that all 6 are insufficient to change the game, so 1 probably will not either, but if you save 1, it can flub the bombardments in second and subsequent wave attacks. If Japan is in this position, its probably losing. Its better to use them to win (deter or change odds at a critical moment).
It is not true that 1-2 fighters do not change the game for SZ 6/Japan on the defense or offense. There are many times later in the game when everything has another job, all the air is dead or occupied on the Mainland/Island defense and without a few fighters, you can’t project any attack/defense to dissuade anything. You have to have a DD but having as many 4-air as possible opens new lanes of attack/shuttle bombing optys.
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@SS:
@WILD:
Just out of curiosity how do you split up your kami’s, and do you send all six? Say the US is attacking a kami zone with everything they have in a fight to the death. Do you target the capital ships sending say 2 kami’s at each capital ship, or 3? Or do you send them out to 6 different surface ships trying to take out as many dice as possible?
So if US is attacking with
A
3 Battleships 4 4@4 = 12
3 Carriers 0 3@0 = 0
4 Cruisers 3 4@3 = 12
4 Destroyers 2 4@2 = 8
6 Figs 3 6@3 = 18
Total Attack = 50If you take out 4 cruisers and 2 Destroyers = 16 less on Attack = 34
Cost 64 icps for US just from 6 Kamis if they all hit.If you take out 3 Carriers = 0 on Attack = 50
Cost 48 icps for US. Now if Figs live and no where to land then it costs US another 60 icps.
Total cost for US is 108 icps.So you do have choices. Do you do the Cruiser-Dest Kami attack and hope Japan gets to the figs on defense rolls while the US attack value drops each round of battle ?
This will all depend also on what Japan has for Navy being attacked too.
Correct me if my numbers are wrong.Always go for cruiser/destroyers in this scenario.
First of all that 16 less attack means 2 less hits, means 2 of your fighters get to shoot 1 extra time to cause more losses.
If its a fight to the death ( with like decent odds ) he will need his carriers to take hits anyway so his air will not survice.So cruiser/destroyers in this scenario gives you more ipc difference and.
Asuming that your japan fleet also is pretty big there so you did not put your fleet into a death trap.
Just killing 2 cruiser with the kamis will change the odds considerably, from a US victory to mutual annihilationOh Ya. 16 less = less dice.
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OK so Kami 6 different ships (target cruisers and destroyers) to reduce enemy dice, was my line of thought too.
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Kamis on CVs is useful to soften up a fleet for an attack by Japan. Otherwise, they’re best used on Cruisers.
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There have been plenty of times where all 6 missed or 1 ship got tubbed. Some players argue that the kami should be turned off as an easy Axis nerf against their advantage, especially in G41 and G42.
I’d opine that the best effect of the kami is to keep them in your pocket to deter USA attacks, since they are less effective in most actual situations (killing 0-1 ships) than they potentially could be (causing USA to decline to attack because you still have them and he can’t be certain he’ll make odds).
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