France survives turn 1, what now?

[Navymule]

I had something like this in our game over the weekend.  Germany captured France, but only one ground unit survived the combat.  I wasn’t trying to do anything tricky, just had a bad case of getting diced.  UK then reinforced both France (with A/C) and Normandy (with ground units via the transport that survived from 109).  To complicate matters, I also attacked Russia G1.  After three turns I finally solidified my hold on Western Europe, but by that time my attack into Russia had petered out.

It was no fun.  No fun at all.  If that happens to you, best to seek best terms available at peace talks.  8-)

[simon33]

If only one fighter survives in Paris after G1, Italy should be able to clean up, so it would have to be a bigger loss for Germany than that.

I agree with Ichabod, Axis can’t recover if Italy can’t clean up Paris.

[variance]

@simon33:

If only one fighter survives in Paris after G1, Italy should be able to clean up, so it would have to be a bigger loss for Germany than that.

I agree with Ichabod, Axis can’t recover if Italy can’t clean up Paris.

Unless UK stacks it with planes

[simon33]

Not sure I agree. Ok, checking, UK has 5 fighters in reach by my count. Even if they throw in everything including the bomber, it still becomes a coin flip. Without the bomber for some spare soaking of hits, it’s 70% to Italy.

I hope UK buys 9 inf if it does that because it’s left itself totally exposed.

[taamvan]

We’ve done it in a live game, its a wash.  France would need more to survive to make it matter than just 1 fighter.

3 Fig/UK
2 Fig/France
1 Gib fig
1 malta fig
1 TB from 98
(1 fighter from Leningrad if youre nuttay)

France bought 6 cannon fodder
bomber crew

7 wimps 9 hitters still not worth it but awesome.  Germany lost a significant amount of its land and air force taking it out.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

If you are playing a person that is so far beneath your level that you can still beat him after the 1-3% outcome of a failed Paris attack, you should have given him a starting bonus!

Dice do happen and there are times where it is better to just concede.  I had a game where G1 went VERY poorly, followed by more bad luck for the Italians, followed by horrible luck on G2-G4.  My opponent was not happy that I gave up so early, but Germany was already facing doom.  The Allied fleet was hug and Russia did not have to fear any significant attack deep into their territories.  It is hard to win in the Pacific when the US can focus 100% in that theater.  No thanks to another six turns just to prove that I could not win.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I am trying to figure out what exactly to do if Paris remains. I don’t know if it is wise to pull the French out of Paris (if any survive) or to try to get the allies to reinforce it as best as possible and try to hold on to it.

Also USSR fighter can’t legally land on Paris unless Germany declared war.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

Not capturing Paris is already a ~80 PU swing for the Allies.  The defeat also means that the German forces will not be capable of standing toe-to-toe with the Russian stack outside of Moscow on G5/G6.  Another result of the dicing is that the US can spend nearly 100% of their income in the Pacific for the first ~4 turns without worrying that Germany is getting out of control.

The Axis must pray that the Allies are truly incompetent and can’t take advantage of this massive advantage.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I agree. As I have said many times on these boards, France has a 97% lose and I only failed once to take Paris because I went after Normandy and Vichy on the same turn. However there has to be a plan in place if France manages to hold on.

[Caesar-Seriona]

Well I am sure France surviving turn 1 will annoy Axis but I don’t think it’s the end of the game.

[Caesar-Seriona]

USSR is so weak in the game that I think it would put Germany on par with USSR so in that case, it might force Germany to accept help from Italy at that point. US obviously will focus entirely against Japan. I think Japan will be able to hold of US if they were smart and went right for the Dutch Islands.

[Gargantua]

The real question everyone should be asking, isn’t what should Germany/Italy do.  It’s how Japan should respond to this catastrophe.

J1? J2? J3?  Or what does Japan have in mind?

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@Gargantua:

The real question everyone should be asking, isn’t what should Germany/Italy do.  It’s how Japan should respond to this catastrophe.

J1? J2? J3?  Or what does Japan have in mind?

DoW on Germany; send Kamikaze Fighters to Berlin and bomb the Fuehrerbunker to dust! 8-)

And watch the Pride of the German Wehrmacht… :-D

[Caesar-Seriona]

USSR is incredibly weak in G40 for a major power.

[Witt]

And America isn’t? It had 7 Carriers and 17  Battleships in late 1941, yet when the game begins it has one of each.
And Japan starting with 21 Air, is realistic as hell too.

[Caesar-Seriona]

@wittmann:

And America isn’t? It had 7 Carriers and 17  Battleships in late 1941, yet when the game begins it has one of each.
And Japan starting with 21 Air, is realistic as hell too.

Yes but US can’t get knocked out of the game with a land invasion that can begin on turn 1.

[prodigenius]

@Caesar:

@wittmann:

And America isn’t? It had 7 Carriers and 17  Battleships in late 1941, yet when the game begins it has one of each.
And Japan starting with 21 Air, is realistic as hell too.

Yes but US can’t get knocked out of the game with a land invasion that can begin on turn 1.

A lot of major powers can get knocked out of the game if they’re focussed down.  That’s the basis of many strategies, including Sealion, Calcutta Crush, KGF, KJF, as well as going hard vs Moscow.  So not sure that should be the bellwether :)

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Loosing to France on G1 is like…

[Caesar-Seriona]

US isn’t under any threat what so ever due to their unique position and rules in this game.

[Ichabod]

In a Paris failed attack, Russia can easily buy as many tanks as it wants for several rounds. You’re not playing Russia right if you think it’s super weak under the circumstances of this discussion post. Russia should be able to get strong enough to camp E. Poland and gobble up numerous NO money for awhile or at least keep Germany from making it to Bryansk for a very long time.

If Germany sends all ground into Paris and fails, congratulate your opponent on winning the game, re-cock and re-start.

If Germany tried super aggressive stuff like going for both Normandy and S. France besides Paris, then he definitely deserves to have to switch sides.