• '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Not all variants are worthless.  But I’d like to see more games with tech and national advantages before I see games with new variants.  At least familiarize and master some of the more esoteric parts of the game before complaining the game is too vanilla and reinventing the wheel.  IMHO.


  • I would like to have som standards in A&A. Or 2-3-4 alternate options for gameplay rules.
    I think this game is already complicated… :-)
    Thats why I prefer the triplea version.
    Can’t do any wrong moves, except the transport unloading bug. And a few others, but this is same for alle players.
    Everything is the same for all, u can’t “forget” or make “mistakes”, that isn’t allowed.
    The LHTR should either be mandatory/original or excluded.
    Someone should make a good A&A PC game with only one set of rules, or maybe several. And then the online gaming would be handled much better than now.
    But with several set of gamerules it should not be possible to mix this rules.
    I.e. in triplea the TTL should not be an option it should be included like the 4th.ed. rules.
    With boardgame u can everything u want to… of course everyone try to follow the rules but that isn’t easy.
    I played with some friends a few weeks ago and they didn’t even notice the change of rules from the classic version!!  :lol:
    With classic it wasn’t all that complicated once u get used to it, but the revised 4th.ed. it’s really easy to make mistakes, that is when playing the boardgame variant.
    And other mistakes than the rules I do all the time…
    I like to play one variant at a time, and learn to play it well. Like revised 4th.ed.
    And when, or if I become really good, then it’s time to move on.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    TripleA is loaded with errors though, most notably among the technologies and don’t forget it has no support for national advantages.


  • I support TripleA.

    TripleA for Prezident!


  • TripleA is the best there is right now.
    But it would be much better if someone made a commercial PC game.
    Triplea is freeware and it has its restraints.
    With a A&A PC game it should include all variants, like LHTR, 3.rd.,4ht.ed. etc.
    Guadalcanal, Revised, Europe, BOTB etc.
    Online gaming inlcuded.
    And GOOD AI to play against.


  • @Lucifer:

    TripleA is the best there is right now.
    But it would be much better if someone made a commercial PC game.
    Triplea is freeware and it has its restraints.
    With a A&A PC game it should include all variants, like LHTR, 3.rd.,4ht.ed. etc.
    Guadalcanal, Revised, Europe, BOTB etc.
    Online gaming inlcuded.
    And GOOD AI to play against.

    Just WHO will be paying for the cost of developing this program that you want?

    Dun dun dun.

    That’s right, nobody, which is why this wonderful program is going to take a lot of time to appear - assuming it ever does.

    I hear TripleA is going to implement LHTR sometime, when the programmers get around to putting it in.

    As far as GOOD AI - well, I’ve got some ideas, but they require a lot of time, and don’t pay anything, so, well - lol.  Maybe in a coupla months, if nothing comes up, I can write up an algorithm.


  • @newpaintbrush:

    Just WHO will be paying for the cost of developing this program that you want?

    Avalon Hill?
    Whoever holds the copyrights.

    It’s fully possible to make much better game than triplea.
    How much will it sell……I don’t know.
    I guess Halo 3, Civilization 8, sells better than A&A.

    A&A is not completely different from chess. And chess is quite popular.
    I don’t know how many A&A players there are in the world.
    But if all are counted, also boardgamers, CD version from 98?, triplea, then I’m sure there’s big enough market to
    make it profitable.


  • @Lucifer:

    Avalon Hill?
    Whoever holds the copyrights.

    That’s sort of my point.  The people that hold the copyrights aren’t interested in making a computer game off it.  Think - the development cost will be far more than for Risk, or for Monopoly, because of the cost of writing the far more complex AI.  Plus Axis and Allies is less popular.

    It’s fully possible to make much better game than triplea.

    ZOMG U LIE! . . .

    Of COURSE it is possible to make it better, it’s just a question of who’s gonna pay for it.
    How much will it sell……I don’t know.
    I guess Halo 3, Civilization 8, sells better than A&A.

    Mmhmm.

    A&A is not completely different from chess. And chess is quite popular.
    Say there are about 700 chess player for every one Axis and Allies player.  That’s what makes them “completely different”; market size!
    I don’t know how many A&A players there are in the world.
    But if all are counted, also boardgamers, CD version from 98?, triplea, then I’m sure there’s big enough market to
    make it profitable.

    Hasbro so far has begged to differ.

    What we need is some kinda petition.

    (edited for colorz)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    My tripleA supports LHTR, to some extent.  Dunno about yours.

    Anyway, you’ll never make an intelligent AI to play against.  Just give up on that.

    But making the variants should be simple enough, just expand upon Axis and Allies : Iron Blitz, try to iron out some of the errors, add the new maps, add the new units and sell it for $59.99.

    It’s easy money for the manufacturer’s since most of the code is already there.  You just need to copy paste some code, change some variables and design new maps.


  • If there was the possibility of selling an A&A videogame I think that Hasbro did not have lost it!

    AI is a challenge, the last years have seen great improvements, for example Deep Blue, one day we will have a AI player fro triple A that may defeat medium experienced player I think!


  • I would move normally, except that I would also take the Caucuses.
    I have only played on TripleA, so I can’t compare it with other ‘on line’ systems.
    Concerning the NA and tech advantages, it seems pretty clear that a nation can pretty well gear themselves to a victory with the right combination of advantages, if their opponent, (especially a newbee) fails to know just what the counter NA or techs  are.
      :-D I think I have a good solution, but wait  :wink:, I have to do my copyright first.
      I don’t mind sharing ideas with everyone, but when it comes to a lot of hard work by me and my partner, (my wife) well work should be compensated, play should be free. If anyone disagrees, then you probibly don’t understand the concept of free enterprise, supply and demand, and that the mother of invention is the need for something better.
    And besides, I am in dire need of some extra income.
      Anyway, I hope you will consider my project with an open mind.
      Respectfully,

    C.I. :-o


  • @Jennifer:

    My tripleA supports LHTR, to some extent.  Dunno about yours.

    In the latest tripleA version the LHTR is included.
    But u can’t land fighters on sz at end of turn and then move them to the newly built AC.
    And u can’t build fighters and place them on AC.
    LHTR, NA, is not supported by the current java version of tripleA.
    A lot of others stuff is also missing in the tripleA compared to rules, variants etc.

    I’m happy someone made the tripleA version so we all can play A&A against anyone who’s online, but it’s not like
    tripleA is “good enough” as it is now.
    This is the freeware cons and pros.
    It’s not for sure that even if Hasbro didn’t (yet) make a PC game of A&A with different versions it would not be profitable.
    We don’t know that before it’s done. And only then we would know if A&A PC game would sell big enough to pay for
    development costs. And it doesn’t have to include good AI, but then I would definately buy it and use it instead of tripleA.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Romulus:

    AI is a challenge, the last years have seen great improvements, for example Deep Blue, one day we will have a AI player fro triple A that may defeat medium experienced player I think!

    I’d settle for an AI that can challenge my 4 year old. :)


  • Ok, I know that until the product it is not sold it is not possible to know how items many of them will be bought, but surveys and researchs on the market are a common business strategies, and Hasbro is quite good at marketing.

    Regarding AI in tripleA I agree with you Jennifer, it is like a children!
    Actually AI is a disciopline that is still growing, and have still to do a lot of improvement to achieve significative results, other than particulare application, but we can be sure that the in the future Computer will become more and more able at self-management and problem solving.

  • 2007 AAR League

    TripleA is just fine - why re-invent the wheel? It’ll be a lot easier to just add NA’s and LHTR than to build a whole new program.

    As for AI - I think this would be extremely difficult. Just curious - are there any other boardgames of similar complexity that have been made into computer versions with decent AI?

    In terms of complexity, A&A would be a lot harder to program than chess I think. You have:

    • 5 sides instead of 2 - you have to consider what four other powers will do in response to your move.
    • the problem of logistics
    • the outcome of battles is not predictable as in chess
    • the board layout is much more irregular than the square grid in chess
    • victory condition is much more complex
    • the decision of what units to buy doesn’t exist in chess
    • each turn you can move all your units, not just one.

    I guess you could make the AI base it’s calculations on No Luck outcomes


  • Frood, resolving all the issues you said are difficult. But, as I said, AI is a challenge, and is making progress every day.

    In videogame to have hard AI “players” usually they cheat. For example in Warcraft, Computer Players have advantages in collecting of money, so they are still stupid but have a lot of money and units!

    The best AI I have ever found in a Videogame, that is alsofamous for this reason, was in “Carriers at War” produced by SSG. (By the way in the last weeks Matrix Games website announced the release of the new version of Carrier at War that seems great).

    In that game the AI used some predefined strategy, that are casually selected and mixed up, and may also be changed to adapt to the game.

    Indeed, I think that the real improvement in Videogame AI will be when the “Strong AI Model”, will be used. The difference with the ordinary used “Weak Model” is that the AI Learn, and so it may become better at the game, the more games are played. So you do not need to create a perfect AI at start but you need an AI able to learn. No one game that I know have this feature, however.


  • P.S.

    The AI techniques and solving startegies are usually tested on game. Because games, in respect to the real world, allows for problem with well defined domains and goals but at same time are very complex having a lot of possible actions.


  • @Jennifer:

    Anyway, you’ll never make an intelligent AI to play against.  Just give up on that.

    NEVAR, u say?  Would you be willing to bet on that?

    The bet I have in mind involves Jen, a bikini, a small keg of rum, and a flame-resistant rubber chicken.

    Everyone else that wants in on the bet, wave your hand.


  • I can write a fairly good AI for Axis and Allies.  I can’t do it for chess tho.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @newpaintbrush:

    @Jennifer:

    Anyway, you’ll never make an intelligent AI to play against.  Just give up on that.

    NEVAR, u say?  Would you be willing to bet on that?

    The bet I have in mind involves Jen, a bikini, a small keg of rum, and a flame-resistant rubber chicken.

    Everyone else that wants in on the bet, wave your hand.

    See, the problem with this bet is simple, I’D WANT TO LOSE! :P  Yes, I’m an attention whore, I know. :)

    Anyway, they have a CD-Rom they could adapt much more easily then TripleA to put new maps and new units in as well as LHTR and National Advantages.  They just have to do it.

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