GW36 Italian Strategy - Operazione Chiave (Operation Key).

[Jinx1527]

This is not a new thought, I do not credit it as my own.

I often get sucked in to the attraction of taking Cairo, Italian Armies are poised on the border, the Italian Reiga Marina is ready, sometimes I manage to take it before my Italian Empire comes crashing down from a kick in the west.

But I realized the real control of the Mediterranean is in Gibraltar, especially if it splits the British Royal Navy in two. The fact that Gibraltar is further away from my Italian armies and closer to enemy sources of power has a subconscious impact on me, as well as knowing the Suez was worth 7 IPP for the Allies and 3 IPP for the Axis, a net swing of 10 IPP!!!

I’m not saying that the Italians shouldn’t go for the Suez. There will be some games where they should.
But for the control of the Mediterranean, with a little German help, Gibraltar IS key to stopping those Americans from kicking in the door.

[Munck]

Very good discussion!

Regarding reinforcement (if you manage to take it :-) ):

Have you thought about using german strategic bombers to deliver infantry from France?

German strategic bombers could also be used for carpet bombing prior to the attack by the Italians.
To keep the pressure on the UK homeland, Germany could also finish the light carrier and build a few transports in the beginning of the game.

Another thing to keep in mind: If you take Gibraltar, you close the Med to Allied shipping. Thus the value from Convoying South of Africa increases. This would make the British spend more on Escorts far away from Europe.

[Jinx1527]

@Munck:

Very good discussion!

Regarding reinforcement (if you manage to take it :-) ):

Have you thought about using german strategic bombers to deliver infantry from France?

German strategic bombers could also be used for carpet bombing prior to the attack by the Italians.
To keep the pressure on the UK homeland, Germany could also finish the light carrier and build a few transports in the beginning of the game.

Another thing to keep in mind: If you take Gibraltar, you close the Med to Allied shipping. Thus the value from Convoying South of Africa increases. This would make the British spend more on Escorts far away from Europe.

Good points indeed. Especially with the earlier transporting German troops via air, I thought only air transports could do that (and via airfields? I’d have to check the rules). But usually I like to keep some German Air Transports in northern Europe to project threat on England.

The German player could also bomb Gibraltar like you stated, prior to an attack by Italians, but my fear would be that by doing so would tip the hand of the Axis in signalling an attack is imminent. England can reinforce Gibraltar between the German and Italian turns, or at the very least, sacrifice losing convoy money to concentrate their fleet just inside the straits and prevent an Italian attack.

[Leatherneckinlv]

The Balkan nations are also vital for Italy to succeed. They are more achievable. What Italy purchases in the beginning is also a key. Italy has to decide, Land or sea.

[Munck]

From re-reading the rules, only Air Transports are mentioned on page 55.
It does say that Strategic Bombers can be used with paratropers in an airborne attack though.

[Whitshadw]

@Leatherneckinlv:

The Balkan nations are also vital for Italy to succeed. They are more achievable. What Italy purchases in the beginning is also a key. Italy has to decide, Land or sea.Â

This is true but mind you the Balkan Territories are victory conditions for Germany and if Italy does take those territories they do not count for Germany.

[Jinx1527]

I don’t think Italy should waste resources attacking the Balkans.
Italy has a short time window to achieve anything before being put on its back foot. I think they should bend all their strength to securing the Mediterranean. Taking Gibraltar, Cairo & Egypt before anything else.

Neutral nations don’t get much stronger or move, they can wait, unless they are easy pickings. IPP’s can be picked up from an active enemy, it moves the net balance of IPP further away from Allies and to Axis then does attacking neutrals.

Let Germany take the Balkans: they get the VP points, and they can lend-lease to Italy using the money they gain.
There are more pressing things to do as Italy.

[Whitshadw]

I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.

[Jinx1527]

@Whitshadw:

I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.

Yeah, exactly.
America is a little further from Gibraltar in G36 then G40, so a person has a little time to steel themselves for the attack. If the Americans head there vs. Cornwall (England), it becomes a little more threatening, projecting their threat all up and down the coast. But at least the Med is free.

[Rank Carcass]

@Jinx1527:

@Whitshadw:

I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.

Yeah, exactly.
America is a little further from Gibraltar in G36 then G40, so a person has a little time to steel themselves for the attack. If the Americans head there vs. Cornwall (England), it becomes a little more threatening, projecting their threat all up and down the coast. But at least the Med is free.

Agree with all of this. Typically I use Italian forces from africa via transport, For a fast reinforcement of Gibraltar. I  then build land units in Italy to gobble up all the little IPP teritorries around the medd. Balkans are for Germany only due to victory point. Next Italy will either build a minor factory in north africa, and crush the sueze. Or build a minor factory in Gibraltar. Depending upon Allied threat projection. This Gibraltar factory attracts attention to Gibraltar but allows the production of a unit and militia each turn, for defense or transport pickup to project Italian threat of landing into the Atlantic Ocean: either London, west Africa or South America. Especially if germany owns Marsailles and its shipyard rather than vichy. Germany can then place any ship in the medd. With Italy.
This can allow for drawing forces south and easing german naval movement/defense in the north Atlantic

[Rank Carcass]

Oops. Should have stated. Allow vichy to happen to disrupt the French navy then attack its capital with Germany. Italy can also use the Gibraltar factory to either reinforce or attack in Spain if required. And German lend lease to Italy is always helpful for a turn or 2 early on so Italy can get an edge in the medd.

[General 6 Stars]

:-o

[Whitshadw]

@Rank:

@Jinx1527:

@Whitshadw:

I agree with Jinx, I tend to Lend lease 1 unit to Spain with Italy for the first round to establish a firm control in Spain and save the rest so about a Artillery to Spain and keep the other 3 IPP then the next turn I have 10 IPP so I build a transport and also save the 2 IPP for the following turn to which I add a second transport … After 3 round Italy has 2 Transports and Starts building a Light Carrier as well as ground units I tend to time my attack with Germanys swoop into France and pounce on Gibraltar. Clean and flush out the med and see what nations are Vichy and which are free French … from there I build 1 Militia a turn in Gibraltar while reinforcing it with Ground units Eventually I send a AA over build a bunker and play the Come get me game with Italy while Germany is doing there work.

Yeah, exactly.
America is a little further from Gibraltar in G36 then G40, so a person has a little time to steel themselves for the attack. If the Americans head there vs. Cornwall (England), it becomes a little more threatening, projecting their threat all up and down the coast. But at least the Med is free.

Agree with all of this. Typically I use Italian forces from africa via transport, For a fast reinforcement of Gibraltar. I  then build land units in Italy to gobble up all the little IPP teritorries around the medd. Balkans are for Germany only due to victory point. Next Italy will either build a minor factory in north africa, and crush the sueze. Or build a minor factory in Gibraltar. Depending upon Allied threat projection. This Gibraltar factory attracts attention to Gibraltar but allows the production of a unit and militia each turn, for defense or transport pickup to project Italian threat of landing into the Atlantic Ocean: either London, west Africa or South America. Especially if germany owns Marsailles and its shipyard rather than vichy. Germany can then place any ship in the medd. With Italy.
This can allow for drawing forces south and easing german naval movement/defense in the north Atlantic

Sounds like a fun strat but with building Militia now in Gibraltar once you erect a factory at that location you can no longer build Militia at that location, pg.53 "  Militia can be built at a non-factory site" once that factory pops up. Militia for that location can no longer be placed

[Rank Carcass]

Interesting Whitshadw!
I have reviewed the rules. Version 1.2 both page 51 militia and page 53 infantry (militia). States that they can be built in a non factory site, and do not require a factory. But do not say a factory eliminates their placement there. Gibraltar a captured land zone, maximum of 1 militia can be placed.
A minor factory can produce 1unit so long as the ports and or rail conects it to the major factory at home. (Improved factories is an asset 3 units and no need for militia)

However national reference sheets do state on the build chart for militia: Build in non-factory site. This may be HBG editor issues or you are correct. We had simply taken this as a reminder that factory was not required to build.
Italy turin, germany stettin, soviet leningrad, anzac sydney, great Britain Liverpool, london, south africa and ottowa finally US San Francisco.
This may be our source of confusion, all of these locations from the 1936 setups have militia in factory landzones. And japan has a bonus of building militia on the home island and okinawa for 1IPP each, if usa has 5 transports in the Pacific.

Never even considered the presence of a factory as a block to build militia. Our group of 6 is fairly good at finding technicalities to spoke each other’s tires, amazed this never came up! Not sure if this is a house rule on our part.  I’ll need to search global faq…

[Munck]

It makes very little sense that a factory removes the possibility to place Militia in a territory.

can be built <– it does not say must be built…

[Whitshadw]

@Munck:

It makes very little sense that a factory removes the possibility to place Militia in a territory.

can be built <– it does not say must be built…

it says neither it says “ï‚· Militia do not require a factory. The number of militia you may place in a zone is equal to the zone’s point value with a minimum of one militia per zone (even if the zone has no point value).  A captured land zone is always restricted to one militia per turn” on page-51 the first part states that factories are not required to build militia.

the second part sits on page-53 Infantry (Militia): The militia unit represents various types of local or immobile defense forces.  These are often conscripted and poorly trained units such garrison armies, colonial militias and land similar units.  Militia can be built at a non-factory site.  Most Militia cannot move.  Militia have an Attack value of “1” in the rare case that they can be moved to Attack.

in the center of the paragraph it states that " Militia can be built at a non-factory site."

finally if you look at every single nations build chart under Militia it states “Build in non-factory site”  basically telling you not to build in a factory location.

[Chris_Henry]

Great topic and thread. I’ll preface by saying I have not yet had the opportunity to play my game just yet, work gets in the way, and having someplace to keep the awesome, hulking map, set up for extended periods of time alludes us.

I’ve done my best to familiarize myself with the game and rules though.

Point here as it relates to this topic, is that the Spanish Civil War really does play into this strategy a lot as well when you think of it. If the goal for Italy/Mediterranean Axis is Gibraltar, doesn’t making sure the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War take on a whole great importance? As you say in your original post, the amphibious attacking is brutally costly. Activation and alignment of an Axis Spain though would alleviate the need for an amphibious assault on the Rock.

I’m sure that has not alluded you or anyone else here, that’s not my point. The point was that when discussing Italian objectives being Gibraltar, I think you need to add the Spanish Civil War into the wider spectrum of steps to attaining that goal.

That just adds to the fun and intrigue of the game for me. Thinking that one thing, maybe seemingly not connected to an action, truly is in the grander scheme of strategy!

[Whitshadw]

@Chris_Henry:

Great topic and thread. I’ll preface by saying I have not yet had the opportunity to play my game just yet, work gets in the way, and having someplace to keep the awesome, hulking map, set up for extended periods of time alludes us.

I’ve done my best to familiarize myself with the game and rules though.

Point here as it relates to this topic, is that the Spanish Civil War really does play into this strategy a lot as well when you think of it. If the goal for Italy/Mediterranean Axis is Gibraltar, doesn’t making sure the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War take on a whole great importance? As you say in your original post, the amphibious attacking is brutally costly. Activation and alignment of an Axis Spain though would alleviate the need for an amphibious assault on the Rock.

I’m sure that has not alluded you or anyone else here, that’s not my point. The point was that when discussing Italian objectives being Gibraltar, I think you need to add the Spanish Civil War into the wider spectrum of steps to attaining that goal.

That just adds to the fun and intrigue of the game for me. Thinking that one thing, maybe seemingly not connected to an action, truly is in the grander scheme of strategy!

HBG has added " Spanish Civil War" expansion that further " excuse my pun" Expands on the war it self. For example if on the German players turn they roll a specific number on the random events chart one of the abilities is that the Nationals are able to invade Gibraltar it self. Very fun very interesting but ultimately it always boils down to DICE right?  I do hope you are able to play the game it is absolutely fun.

[Chris_Henry]

@Whitshadw:

HBG has added " Spanish Civil War" expansion that further " excuse my pun" Expands on the war it self. For example if on the German players turn they roll a specific number on the random events chart one of the abilities is that the Nationals are able to invade Gibraltar it self. Very fun very interesting but ultimately it always boils down to DICE right?  I do hope you are able to play the game it is absolutely fun.

Yes, that’s right, I forgot all about those random events in the new Spanish Civil War Expansion! Even more intrigue to it! But also very true, the dice giveth and taketh away.

Definitely hope to play soon! We’re working on some plywood and felt in order to actually fit it somewhere. And again, just got to find somewhere to keep it set up long periods of time! Once work quiets down a bit, I hope to push the issue a bit more though!

[118karate]

are we talking about global 1936 or 1939 which gamemode