Yeah, you’re right.
Aggressive Russian Strategy
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@Caesar:
But I never seen someone build the Graf Zepplin and not follow with transports.
Try two… That’s what my particular opponent did in the game I started this thread for. Turn one he bought some tanks and infantry and planes. I’m like “OK let’s get ready Russia”. Then turn two he spent 60 something dollars in the sea. Zero transports. So the two carriers plus some subs and I think he even added a Cruiser in there. He refuses to listen to anything to make him better, he’s the best. The German navy stayed inside the Danish Strait and killed the Russian sub and Cruiser. He moved it out turn 6 to take an empty Scotland which UK took back on its move.
Needless to say, the allies won turn 7 when he quit. Rome was captured by the UK, Tokyo by the USA and France liberated by UK as well. USA was moving into Europe coast turn 8. Russia was next to Germany but couldn’t take it for a couple turns due to poor dicing. I want to remove all the ships from my game for whatever nation he plays next. But like he says “I don’t need YG’s videos or your opinion, it’s all about the luck of the dice”.
I need some competition there is only so many times my friend and I can play one on one without this particular player.
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Yeah, the only reason to buy surface navy for Germany is if you are trying a Sealion. Otherwise it’s just a waste of money. With the help of the Luftwaffe, you can keep the Royal Navy down, but you will never be able to compete with the US Navy.
As Germany, I do try and buy subs though. They can sink UK ships and do some convoy raiding to keep the UK income down while you are dealing with Russia. If you have enough subs, they can even be a distraction for the US when they show up in force.
We once had a game where our Russia player tried buying ships. The idea was to sneak an amphibious assault directly on Germany going behind the main German force marching into Russia. Unfortunately, the German player never left Germany weak on defense so the invasion never really happened. All those ships just ended up rusting in port and all those lost rubles allowed Moscow to fall much easier than it should have.
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Russian navy, that is a crazy concept to do. I only once massed a Red Fleet and I did it because the Nazi’s decided to mass one of the largest surface fleets I have ever seen to do Sealion. It failed horrible because we all had to play very different. This was original version. Try to picture all three allied surface fleets off London.
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German Navy without going Sea Lion is generally insane. The Axis have a huge economic disadvantage and the only way to get it up is conquering territories. In Europe the three valid options are:
- Egypt
- Middle East
- Moscow
If the Axis fails to get to one of these objectives by mid-game, the game is likely over.
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From what I have seen in G40, it is safe for Germany to spend turn 1 money exclusively on navy without wasting time if your end goal is Moscow. As I said, he did it because he knew that at some point, US was going to fleet to Norway which he did. What bugged my mind was the fact that he did it again on turn 2 and launched an invasion of USSR on turn 4 WITHOUT bringing in any Italy forces until turn 8. That made me and my ally jump for joy.
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There definitely are times when a small Navy is justified and beneficial. A few subs combined with planes can be a cost-effective way to sink Allied ships without too expensive of casualties. A few transports can be a game changer. The key is the word “few”. Getting in a Naval arms race with the Allies is going to end badly in most situations.
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Let him play russia or anzac next turn at least for russia you can remove all ships from the game besides if he still refuses to think and buy ships start playing online.
There’s only two major powers that building a fleet is either questionable or insane, and that’s Germany and/or Russia…
Let this guy play the US, UK or Japan… and if he wants to build ships, that’s not really a bad thing with any of them.
As for letting him play Russia… well, even he should realize that ships aren’t really a thing for the Russians… or you’ll have one of the most entertaining games of A&A you’ve ever played with the “Soviet Fleet” strategy in-play before your eyes.
Just keep this guy away from playing Germany… any other power should be fine for him with his style of play.
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Exactly. Germany should only build the Graf Zepplin and even that’s questionable as you can Sealion fights from France.
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Let him play russia or anzac next turn at least for russia you can remove all ships from the game besides if he still refuses to think and buy ships start playing online.
Anzac well he needs ships anyway so not that bad there.
Last time he played Russia, he purchased two Cruisers R1. With the mentality of “Since Russia is predictable and does the same thing always I will do this”. Anzac would probably work except it would be pretty boring to just play them. To give the UK as well is a bit sketchy if you are partnered with him as any repeated builds in the ocean will be sunk by German air.
Let him play russia or anzac next turn at least for russia you can remove all ships from the game besides if he still refuses to think and buy ships start playing online.
There’s only two major powers that building a fleet is either questionable or insane, and that’s Germany and/or Russia…
Let this guy play the US, UK or Japan… and if he wants to build ships, that’s not really a bad thing with any of them.
As for letting him play Russia… well, even he should realize that ships aren’t really a thing for the Russians… or you’ll have one of the most entertaining games of A&A you’ve ever played with the “Soviet Fleet” strategy in-play before your eyes.
Just keep this guy away from playing Germany… any other power should be fine for him with his style of play.
Last game he was the entire axis powers, as is the usual in our games because we are a max of three players with him. As Japan he built all muscle ships. The starting three transports were is only TT that game on that side. Zero inland factory. With the UK helping China due to no threat on India, China was collecting 14 or 15 on the income tracker minus their Burma road objective so in the 20 IPC range when they collect. He did Pearl Harbour J4 I think… Not seeing that it was sandwiched between San Fran and Sydney. He was successful but the US counter wiped him out. So letting him play Japan is a no I think.
Playing the UK I mentioned the problem above and that hurts whoever his partner is. Giving him the States I think would be the scariest move of all. The allies need the States to be good. The US needs transports fully loaded on whatever side they go. He has yet to play the US/Anzac/China combination and I am dreading that day. He just doesn’t understand that the game is won on land in the end. Ships don’t capture IPCs they only destroy TUV.
If he only builds cruisers and battleships with the US then you lose the war as allies pretty quickly, same if he does the same with japan.
Really if he spends 60ipcs on ships in the 2nd round and does not have any transports with that fleet for something usefull he is an idiot.
Building a few subs each round ( 1-3 ) to deter an US landing and to convoy the UK could be ok-ish but building 2 carriers and a cruiser and some other stuff with germany. That isnt even strange it is stupid.You summed it up nicely.
Sadly, myself as well as my other playing partner are considering kicking him out of our games. Which is sad because he is a good friend and loves the game. This might seem drastic but from our point of view one of us has to be his partner as the Allies which is a disadvantage. Or we play together when he takes the axis and completely annihilate him which becomes boring. We do have the odd time when a fourth player plays and he is a very strong player but mostly we are three. He understands the game mechanics and certain basic strategies but does not plan well for his end game. As for myself I will enter every game with a plan on what I want to do and unless I have to react to something different I purchase and move accordingly. I think he purchases and moves based on what he is doing that turn. He realizes you do need TTs but he says those are later purchases. It’s too long of a wait. I might seem like a A-hole because of this but I’ve really tried to help. Sent him links to YG’s videos as well as pages on these forums about strategies and moves. He absolutely refuses to use “someone else’s strategy”. I do understand his point, axis and allies is about doing your strategy and trying to win with whatever you want to do. But you will never get better unless you learn from mistakes of your own as well as other people’s ideas. If he refuses to do both, we don’t have fun when he is in the game.
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This may blow the mind…
How about being honest with him about his playstyle and how it effects you and your friend(s).
Be direct and upfront…
“Hey pal, you know how you always tend to build cruisers, battleships and carriers no matter which nation you play, even Russia?.. you know how you like never buy transports, and/or never enough ground troops cuz you’re always building muscle ships? Ya, well that always makes you lose, and quite frankly, nobody wants you on their team, and playing against you is so easy its boring… you either need to try different strategies, be a little more competitive, or we’re just going to stop playing with you… if you’re open to new ideas/strategies that might make you a better player, we can offer some advice or point you to places where you can get it… otherwise, we like you as a friend, but we just don’t want to play A&A with you anymore”.
-End of Line-
Its called the honest direct approach… when all else fails, try being brutally honest. Sounds like nothing else has worked and you’re about to give up on him anyways.
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You mentioned in an earlier post that this guy loves naval warfare, and I think that this is perhaps the basic problem: he’s playing the wrong game. Global 1940 is a game with a naval component, not a naval game. If he’s too focussed on the naval aspects of WWII to ignore the balanced approach that A&A requires, then he should be playing something that better reflects his interests. Navwar (http://www.navwar.co.uk/nav/pdf/webcat.pdf) produces a huge variety of naval scale miniatures, and also publishes naval warfare rules for various eras. Make the suggestion to him that he might want to check out their website.
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Honestly, you’re going to have to sit him down and just train him by playing training games with him. I have a buddy who is the exact opposite of your friend. He loves land warfare but doesn’t have a clue with navy. He usually plays Germany which is no issue with a land force but every time he plays as Japan, his navy gets whipped and he loses easy in the Pacific. He owns the original version, I am kind of worried about having him play G40 but I am usually an allied power.
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Its an exceptionally hard game to learn, even though it is not among the most complex wargames. We’ve play with a variety of different groups, a house group of 4, a local city group about 10 guys, the 30-40 national guys at Gencon. This has helped with some of the burnout of seeing the same strategies over and over.
I think that when some people get frustrated, they just kind of try different random and unconnected moves and buys but don’t seem to learn the overarching lessons of the game
keep your stuff together
don’t lose it piecemeal
attack and defend in overwhelming force or refuse battle
plan multiple turns ahead with your buys
don’t repeat your mistakes
don’t repeat other people’s mistakes
don’t give up or get discouraged press on
luck favors the bold
know your specific opponents idiosyncratic habits and exploit themNone of these lessons are like “buy 2 tanks and place them in X” or “never do X or Y with Japan”. They are general rules that will lead you to victory. If you ignore them, you’ll lose no matter how much you play the game.
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Wow, it is irritating how so many of you try to put some one else in a box.
Think about it and ask your self if you want to be confronted like that, the way you suggested.
Thanks for your Post CWOMarc this might be something for him.
I made the experiance, that sometimes peoples just have different things in mind regardless of how many times you tried to convince them.
If he doesn’t fit in in your group explain it nice and simple.
Start positive, explain in a few sentences the problem, give at least one or two good alternatives
(the link of CWOMarc in example) and finish positiv.If his World is Naval warfare try not to convince him into Aircombat.
Like you cannot convince a Apple to be Orange. -
@aequitas:
Wow, it is irritating how so many of you try to put some one else in a box.
Think about it and ask your self if you want to be confronted like that, the way you suggested.
If his World is Naval warfare try not to convince him into Aircombat.
Like you cannot convince a Apple to be Orange.I find it irritating that you don’t think people should try and help someone play A&A better… the person in question clearly has some issues that go far beyond “he just kinda likes playing with a navy”… this is literally a guy that tries the “Soviet Naval Strategy” from turn-1. Just stop and think about that nugget for awhile.
If I were that guy, and I was the one going “gee, I think some Russian Cruisers on turn-1 would be pretty cool, let me try that strategy”.
After I got destroyed and lost Moscow in record-time, I would pray to the war gods that somebody would pull me aside and go “hey… about that Soviet Naval Strategy of yours… you might want to try something different, let me show you”.
You seem to champion letting this guy have terrible strategies for all eternity. People around here have all been offering helpful tips to try and improve his play so everyone can have more enjoyable A&A gaming, not leave him floundering hiding behind Soviet Cruisers in the Arctic Ocean.
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The irony is that even if they are a total novice and they don’t learn anything, its better than playing with a group of 40+ year old men who crack playground jokes and act inappropriately tense when things don’t go their way or some kind of tension arises at the table.
That’s why I’ve put considerable time and effort into meeting with and making new friends around the continent (through this website, local email list, local con attendance, and gencon attendance) so that I don’t have to play with grown children.
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Finding ANYONE that enjoys the game is always a joy… in a world full of computers, cell phones, Netflix and instant gratification across the web, its hard to find anyone who wants to go to someone else’s home, break out a board game that can take hours and play some face to face.
This guy with the obsession to build ships? I’d love to invite him over for some rounds of A&A… at least its a fellow human being willing to do something other than a computer or console game… and who knows… maybe I could sharpen his game skills at the same time…
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There are a large number of people who will not learn a strategy game, even a relatively simple one like A&A. Since a game can stretch on for 6-12 hours, it can ruin a whole day to have someone at the table who is not only incompetent but will never progress. You know the outcome of the match by the second round, but still need to grind on for the rest of the day. Repeated failures with the same strategy but still expecting a better result is a definition of insanity.
One of the players in our gaming group will only build infantry as Russia and will 100% turtle down in Moscow. With zero desire for even the smallest Russian counterattack, it is a simple matter for Germany to sweep around the capitol, capturing Siberia and the Middle East. If the Axis is patient, they are guaranteed eventual victory. Making matters worse, he plays incredibly slowly. Turns can last for 30 minutes before he concludes that once again he is not going to make any attacks. Eventually Axis players get bored and decide to make an attack on Moscow, realizing that it is premature but unwilling to spend a few more hours before launching a more overwhelming conquest. I personally would rather go home than participate in a match with him at the table.
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30 minutes to decide not to attack is poor sportsmanship.
Some turns can take a while but unless there is some really difficult and game changing decision, that is beyond the pail.
Does anyone really finish games on the same day they start? Doesn’t seem likely to me.
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Well even in the netherlands there are plenty of people to find to play boardgames with. The board is full of people in the US that want to play A&A.
With the United States at 3.8 million square miles (9.8 million km2) and with over 324 million people, maybe there’s a few thousand that do play, but none are anywhere near Pensacola, Florida where I play (or at least they’re in hiding and I don’t know of them). Yes, PB-mail/board whatever, but I’m talking face-to-face play, which is just super hard to find… I’m glad others on this board have face to face partners close by, but just because YOU do, doesn’t mean everyone has a bunch of people wanting to play face-to-face next door.
I’m happy so many people have regular face-to-face people to play… but not everyone is in the same boat, so please don’t assume just because your situation is a certain way that everyone else is the same too. I have one friend who’d like to play, but he’s the kind of guy who always has this or that going on and it’s always a “next weekend” thing that never happens. I’m willing to work with someone who’s not so great at A&A over having nobody to play.
Having said that, if anybody is passing through Pensacola Florida and wants a nice game of A&A, buzz me! :-D
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