Anybody though about this for a house rule.
Each player gets one redo through the course of the game.
In the last 8 games I have played, the side that had the good rolls Round 1 (Russian taking UKR hard or getting whomped in UKR, or Germany getting really bad rolls taking back UKR or really good rolls), won.
Seriously. Every single game! This included 2 tourney games and several games from here, DAAK, and FOE.
Now, not everyone takes UKR Russia first turn, but this has happened a lot in the current tourney. Just check out the first round games.
My idea is that one time per game, a player can choose to reroll a combat (or maybe just one round of combat), to keep a silly <1% battle from deciding the game in the first or 2nd round.
UK losing 3 planes trying to take out the Baltic fleet, Germany losing the BB and TRN first turn (been there), Russia losing its entire force taking UKR (Ive done that), Germany losing its entire force trying to take UKR back, without inflicting a single casualty (dont that too), Japan losing its entire force trying to take out PH (wow, thats familiar).
Nothing lamer than a game being decided in the 1st or 2nd turn, not by good or bad moves, but by crazy dice.
Mateooo
In golf, this is called a “mulligan”. Interesting idea, but I might limit it to only first round battles, and you have to decide right then and there you want to use the mulligan, not wait for further battles to be rolled before going back.
Still, I doubt this rule would make it into Switch’s sanctioned tournament rules…
Mateoo, you should be careful voicing this “luck determines games” stuff. Else the “no luck - all skill” guys are gonna ruff you up for blasphemy.
Anybody though about this for a house rule.
Each player gets one redo through the course of the game.
In the last 8 games I have played, the side that had the good rolls Round 1 (Russian taking UKR hard or getting whomped in UKR, or Germany getting really bad rolls taking back UKR or really good rolls), won.
Seriously. Every single game! This included 2 tourney games and several games from here, DAAK, and FOE.
Now, not everyone takes UKR Russia first turn, but this has happened a lot in the current tourney. Just check out the first round games.
My idea is that one time per game, a player can choose to reroll a combat (or maybe just one round of combat), to keep a silly <1% battle from deciding the game in the first or 2nd round.
UK losing 3 planes trying to take out the Baltic fleet, Germany losing the BB and TRN first turn (been there), Russia losing its entire force taking UKR (Ive done that), Germany losing its entire force trying to take UKR back, without inflicting a single casualty (dont that too), Japan losing its entire force trying to take out PH (wow, thats familiar).Nothing lamer than a game being decided in the 1st or 2nd turn, not by good or bad moves, but by crazy dice.
Mateooo
A valiant idea but one that could have perverted consequences, completely opposite of your intentions:
I might be MORE willing to take a low-risk/high reward battle merely because I now have TWO chances for it to work.
Like taking out the Alied fleet. I go into a 30% win odds battle to take out the fleet and (rightfully so) get clobbered!
I hollar “UNFAIR DICE”, reroll and then roll right over the navy. Now if the allies haven’'t used their Must Re-Roll card, they would be screwed.
Yeah, Axis_Roll is right.
You could see more Ukr attacks b/c the Russian player now has two chances to do well.
Although, I have played with “mulligans” before. In Classic (with LL) against AgentSmith.
Our rules were you had to use it in round 1.
Basically it was insurance for the Axis player when he sent a bom or ftr after the UK trn off E Can. It really does suck when a bom misses and the trn hits.
Or possibly a Russian attack with planes on the Baltic on R1.
In revised I could see a Mulligan for the SZ 15 battle, 1 BB, trn vs. DD or SZ 13 if you go 3-4 fts and sub vs. BB.
Something to help you not lose a ftr as Ger or make sure you sink the UK DD. Or possibly EGY.
I think the Ukr battles are risky as is and shouldn’t be rewarded with possible mulligans. I say this b/c even though I do the Ukr battle on R1 most of the time it is not a necessity to win for the Allies and the decision shouldn’t be made easier for the Allies if they know they have a redo.
Well, skill is a factor, but I dont care how good you are, If I get perfect UKR rolls as Russia, and then Germany gets creamed trying to take it back, Im gonna win as Allies 9/10 (taking into account future crazy rolls)
I personally wouldnt be any more likely to make a risky move knowing I had a mulligan (unless this mulligan was only limited to the first turn), knowing that I only have one reroll, and that the second round results may be even worse. And if the rolls are then awesome, your opponent could choose to reroll those rolls.
Personally, I just hate knowing the eventual outcome of a game with ~90% certaintly after the first turn in some games, when I would suggest there is the least amount of skill (most people have only a few preset opening moves, with slight adjustments for previous battle results). Not to say EVERYONE does good first round moves, but skill is reflected in moves that develop over multiple turns.
Skill is not determined by the results of 3 ARM 3 INF 1 RTL 2 FTR vs UKR, though often games are.
My two cents!
I don’t think there should be any re-do’s or mulligans. That’s the beauty of the game, if you get kicked in the butt, you get kicked hard and have to make up for it somehow. That’s how the good players survive and thrive, but turning defeat into victory and using an unfortunate occurence to go about something a different way. For me, it has seemed the last few games where the RAF has hit the Baltic and been annhiliated, sometimes with one unit remaining, sometimes not, all while my dest and trans still live! MUahahahaha.
So forget the redo. Just suck it up princess, and push on.
Play Low Luck then.
If Russia takes a mulligan on Ukraine what stops Germany from taking a mulligan after that to get Russia to be bad off again?
Perhaps you can choose one bad battle dice per game and reroll it. Kinda like the NFL challange rule. You then reroll the dice and your stuck with this new final outcome.
Bidding can now be a number of these free rerolls per game. It would make the complaints against the dice soften a little.
–
Perhaps, instead of a reroll, you go with a mulligan but you get the most likely outcome given by Frood or another AA Calculator? This way you won’t get stellar results, but if you had a 51% chance of winning, you’d still win but with whatever they said you had left.
And if Froods dicey is not handy just have the “mulligan” convert to a LowLuck dice roll. That is nearly always what the most common output is in Froods dicey.
This eliminates the use of the “mulligan” as a tool to maximize the effect of a high risk gamble. You might even think of this as being a situation where an incompetent General / Admiral gets benched and his staff takes over. You can usually trust the staff to give you competent (low luck) results.
Or we could quite whining about “bad luck” and realize that without luck on the board we would all be playing Checkers, Chess or Diplomacy.
Personally, luck is what makes the game interesting. Luck is what allowed my opponent to take 2 ARM, and 2 INF and destroy my 4 FTR with no losses to himself. My error in skill is why there was not an INF or 2 stacked with my FTR. That single battle has dramatically changed the situation for Germany but I would rather have that in the game than not.
Nearly always, but sometimes you have a +/- 1-3% chance of a different outcome with actual dice over low luck
@Sankt:
Mateoo, you should be careful voicing this “luck determines games” stuff. Else the “no luck - all skill” guys are gonna ruff you up for blasphemy.
(strokes feathered chin)
Why yes . . . yes they will . . .
I mean “we” really . . .
Burn, heretic, burn!
If you have a 40% chance on a capital shot, and have a do over possibility, that 40% becomes a 64%. I don’t think this house rule would ELIMINATE games based on long shots and chance. I rather think that the house rule would make a long game longer, and would encourage people to shoot the moon.
POOR MOON!
(examines above post) . . . yes, yes, usual crack pipe form . . .
But Mister Owl!!!
What if the other player insists on a “do over” after you have taken his capital with your “do over”?
(40%)(40%) = (64%)
(64%)(60%) = (38.4%)
Ha!!!
Go ahead, use your long shot to shoot the Moon, Mister Crack Pipe Smoking Owl! The Moon shoots back!
hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah
If someone takes your capital, it’s worth an automatic do-over ANYWAY. You can’t get a WORSE situation cause you already LOST the capital. So it’s uphill from there.
Actually I’m waiting for Mister Owl to come back and find the errors in the math that he and I posted…
:-D
Actually I’m waiting for Mister Owl to come back and find the errors in the math that he and I posted…
:-D
1. “Math” is a four letter word. We’ll have less of that, mister.
B. You can’t do over a do over. Because that would be doo-doo. Naughty!
It would not be doo-doo!!!
It would be over-over for you-you! :-o
:-D
