• Hey Fellas,

    I came to this site to see if I have missed something in the newly revised game, but the Axis powers have been upgraded to the point of insanity to where it isn’t even a game anymore.  The change in fighter costs, increased defense value for armor, build limitations on original complexes, added sea zones in the Atlantic and a major beefing up of the Axis (economically and militarily) do not leave much room for the Allies to maneuver.  I am hoping that I have missed something critical in making any type of Russian stand against the Germans or the Japanese.  It has been difficult for me to consider this game made it through playtesting without seeing what I see.  This is why I am querying you guys to see what I missed.

    I ask for some sample starter moves (for turn 1 and or 2) for Russia and UK.  I will counter with German and Japanese moves to give you an idea of what I am talking about.

    Thank you in advance for your efforts, I look forward to your comments.

    -Octopus


  • After many games, I believe the opposite remains true - the Allies have the advantage without any bids or lucky dice, though not nearly as badly as what I’ve read of Classic. Germany loses its territories a bit too easily, and Japan is miles away from being able to help and can its momentum can be broken somewhat easily because of the 3 prongs of attack, and Africa is easily put back into Allied hands. I have won a lot of games as the Axis, but usually against less experienced players who are easily intimidated by mass tanks, who don’t contest Africa, and who really don’t coordinate well nor are aggressive enough.

    Russia turn 1: Build 4 infantry, 3 artillery. Attack Belorussia with 3 inf from Karelia, both fighters. Attack West Russia with everything else that can reach. Sub goes to UK fleet, all other infantry retreat west. Deploy 3 inf 1 art in Caucasus, and 1 inf 2 art in Moscow.

    UK turn 1: Depends a little bit on the German build. I usually now start with 2 tran + 3 inf + 1 tank. This changes if the Baltic fleet was reinforced or not (if not reinforced, then I am more aggressive and build a carrier, invade Norway, and destroy the Baltic fleet on turn 1). If Egypt was invaded, I counterattack with troops from India and the fighter from the navy. I’m now going back to having the Australian fleet run east with a couple of inf (in 2 turns they can reach Africa).

    US turn 1: Start with a carrier + 2 trans + 2 tanks. Position everything to go for Germany.

    Turn 2 depends on what the Axis has done.


  • After many games, I believe the opposite remains true - the Allies have the advantage without any bids or lucky dice, though not nearly as badly as what I’ve read of Classic.

    And how! Nowadays it is totally impractical to play a game of classic without an Axis bid, and usually a decent one at that, plus playing Russia Restricted (no Russian attacks allowed on R1).

    I would agree with Trihero in that the Allies have an advantage; is it impossible to win as the Axis? No, even against a decent player. The dice are always a factor but you can set yourself up to take advantage of scenerios that develop during the game. I don’t believe this game is all about the dice/ luck. I think the Axis were given a much needed shot in the arm for Revised, especially with the added IPCs for Germany and Japan (and especially the latter). I do feel that Japan is the key to the game for the Axis and that playing them very aggressively is the only way to really bring pressure against Russia, hence my belief that Germany has to do all it can to keep the Russians very busy so they (the Russians) cannot transfer ANY troops to the east. If Russia can begin to shift troops to Novo et al, Japan will be slowed down more than enough for the Allies to trounce Germany.


  • To Trihero

    Excellent, I shall set the board up in the morning, and we can do a mock-trial.  I understand waiting on England’s moves based on what Germany does.  I appreciate you taking the time to do this.  Thank you.

    To Kyrial

    I was initially shocked when I saw the bid system in Axis and Allies.  I can’t imagine giving the Axis any additional edge in the original game (even though this is not the forum for it).  My strategy for the original Axis translates well to the revised edition and Russia falls like a wilted flower.  I haven’t seen anyone list this (my) strategy altough I can’t imagine I am the first to use it.  I did a math project on the game when I took differential equations, the computer modelling revealed very interesting results that were counter intuitive to the play of the game.  The result has been quite surprising and you may have to see it to believe it, but I must retire for the evening.  Let me deal with Trihero and you will see how this developes and I believe you will get the idea.  I do appreicate your patience.

    Octopus


  • Octopus, I’d be interested to see your strategy. I’m sure some of the people here will have plenty to comment on and at the least you’ll get some real feedback one way or another.

    I would be interested in knowing how, in classic, Russia was taken out so easily… I know this is a revised forum, so we’ll stick to that, but if your build was anything similar in classic I’d really be interested in seeing how it would work. Looking forward to it!


  • Octopus…
    If you want to see some Allied strategies that worked…

    check out the games forum for the games Trihero and I have played, in particular Game 2 where Tri was playing the Allies, and our most recent game where I played the Allies, both were Allied wins.

    Actually, out of 4 games we played, 3 were Allied win, 1 was Axis win.


  • Actually, out of 4 games we played, 3 were Allied win, 1 was Axis win.

    Sounds just about right  :-)


  • Now to qualify that…

    The first Allied win was against me as the first game of Revised I had ever played… I lost in UK2!  Talk about screwing up…
    So kick that one out of the averages.

    Then, there was another game I played with Ezto that, while not finished completely, was so massively favoring the Axis that it was only a matter of time (even Ezto had stated that he was just going to be making the win “painful and slow” for me before he stopped posting to the game.

    So, with those adjustements…
    it would be 2 Axis, 2 Allies for me…

    Of course, Dice are always a factor…


  • Well Octopus, as Hannibal Lector said, “Thrill me with your acumen!”

    I’m interested in seeing your strategy and seeing what your math showed you. This game is math based after all and I wish I were smart enough to analyze it the way you do.

    is it impossible to win as the Axis? No, even against a decent player.

    I never said it was impossible, I was making the point that it is improbable without a bid. I find that the Axis is usually between 1-2 rounds too late to make it an even game with the Allies; Japan is simply too slow and/or Germany wilts too fast.

    Ncscswitch started off on the same note too when he came to the Revised boards, he was like OMG THE AXIS ARE SO STRONG and now look at him  :-P


  • Um Wes…

    For the record…
    Japan HAS done exactly what I said it could do…  50+ IPC’s in every game I have played the Axis, even against Ezto’s USA KJF.  Only game Japan got shut down was the one I just played you :-)

    My original error was in over-estimating Germany.  But even then I have shown that it CAN be done, with conservative play by Germany, and aggressive play as Japan :-)


  • Switch and Trihero,

    I examined some of your games and I see that you do not employ the strategy of which I speak.  Perhaps a game demonstration would be best, but I admit I would be a rookie playing by mail on Axis and Allies.  I would need an education on the dice generator as well.  However, that being said, I think I can still deal with this situation at hand :)

    Octopus


  • Well, I know Tri has already offered…  I’ll also offer with one caveat…

    Unfortunately I am committed to a 5 player game of Revised that is supposed to start today (waiting for the Russia player to kick us off).

    If that game does not happen (i.e., Allies forfeit by not posting Russia moves by Sunday night), then I am more than willing to give your moves a shot.

    As for Dicey’s… for revised I use the one at Daak.  Link is included in the Games section under the current 5-player game thread.


  • I’m just a bit curious, since it seems to be brought up often.  What is this “bid” that is given to a country?  Is it part of the actual rules/part of the game that I seem to have not come across or am not reading right in the manual?  B/c my friends and I haven’t used it at all when we’ve played.  When was this “bid” implimented anyway?


  • The “bid” is effectively a house rule that provides a number of IPC’s to the Axis at the start of the game to increase game balance.  The bid can be taken either as units already placed on the board or as IPC’s for spending in that nation’s turn (usually as initial pieces).

    Conventional Wisdom is that it takes about 24 IPC’s added to the Axis at start to balance a game of Classic.  I have not seen any specific bid consensus for Revised at this time.

    When you hear folks discuss PE or Power Europe, PA or Power Africa, PAsia or Power Asia, they are discussing types of bids… additional European, African or Asian forces to start.


  • So generally it’s the Axis who ask for the bid then?  Would it be in my best interest to try for a bid when/if i’m playing as Germany?  Sorry to be so off topic here.


  • No sweat.

    I initially did not mean to start a game, so please go ahead and take care of prior committments you have scheduled.  I thought about it over night and I could see that discussing the matter could become to cerebral and not real enough to be taken seriously.  I am open to a game where I do look to be beaten.  I do not enjoy games that are unintentially imbalanced.

    Just let me know when you have an opportunity to play.  I am flexible towards your schedule.

    Octopus


  • Japan HAS done exactly what I said it could do…

    Well, for the record, it didn’t even come close to killing on Russia on Round 5-6 when the dice didn’t ridiculously go against me. Becoming a 50 IPC nation is a different thing than winning the game ; )


  • Blaming dice now Wes?  LOL

    My whole point was that i could have Japan adjacent to Russia by J5.  I did that :-P


  • Well our last two games together have shown very little “real” strategy unfortunately, it was indeed one bad dice slammer after another.


  • LOL, well, make up for it THIS game while we are on the same team :-)

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