[Global 1940] Mongolia

@AxisAndAllies1940:

I have a strange Mongolia house rule, whereupon the Mongolia states are considered a ‘pro-Russia neutral’. They can be activated by Russia as soon as Russia and Japan are at war (even if Russia strikes in Korea/Manchuria/Kansu first), but in all other respects are treated like strict neutrals. Also, in this rule, Russia can activate all of Mongolia at once by moving any land units into just one Mongolian territory.

It doesn’t sounds strange to me at all because, as I mention in Section 14B of my Global 1940 2nd Edition Map Analysis…

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36590.0

…Mongolia was actually a pro-Soviet communist state, even though it was nominally neutral for most of WWII.  I even once heard it described somewhere as an “unincorporated subsidiary of the USSR.”

I like this.  It gives the Allies a boost in a perfect place.  Mongolia can practically be represented as a reserve force for the inevitable Russo-Japanese war without any bad effects on gameplay or historical faithfulness.

@CWO:

@AxisAndAllies1940:

I have a strange Mongolia house rule, whereupon the Mongolia states are considered a ‘pro-Russia neutral’. They can be activated by Russia as soon as Russia and Japan are at war (even if Russia strikes in Korea/Manchuria/Kansu first), but in all other respects are treated like strict neutrals. Also, in this rule, Russia can activate all of Mongolia at once by moving any land units into just one Mongolian territory.

It doesn’t sounds strange to me at all because, as I mention in Section 14B of my Global 1940 2nd Edition Map Analysis…

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36590.0

…Mongolia was actually a pro-Soviet communist state, even though it was nominally neutral for most of WWII.  I even once heard it described somewhere as an “unincorporated subsidiary of the USSR.”

Many thanks again CWO for all that info in the link you posted.

Im going to make in my 40 game Mongolia pro-allies and Spain pro-axis.

Spain pro-Axis?  What happens to poor Gibraltar?  This is an outrage!  I swear you are aligned with Vichy!

@Charles:

Spain pro-Axis?  What happens to poor Gibraltar?  This is an outrage!   I swear you are aligned with Vichy!

24-7 !!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Technically if you want to argue actual WWII geo politics then Mongolia should already be active backed the Red Army on standby waiting for orders to invade Japanese territory which didn’t happen until 45.

@Caesar:

Technically if you want to argue actual WWII geo politics then Mongolia should already be active backed the Red Army on standby waiting for orders to invade Japanese territory which didn’t happen until 45.

Agree. Have Russia activate it and that’s it. Pro-Russia

Mongolia is a strange beast during WWII so due to the nice little battle with Japan allied with USSR. Mongolia, USSR, and Japan never officially declared war on each other as well as Mongolia never formalized their alliance with USSR however they had no problem taking the 40K soldiers, mostly cavalry, and attaching themselves to the Red Army and they never were ordered beyond standard “wartime peacetime” alertness and then proceed to join the Soviets when they began to invade Japan.

What also makes Mongolia a strange beast is the fact that Mongolia and the USSR had been fighting Japan on and off years before WWII broke out in Europe.  Mongolia became a potential flashpoint when Japan occupied Manchuria (which shares a border with Mongolia) in 1931, and in 1935 the first armed incident between the two sides occured.  These undeclared border conflicts started small, with things like cavalry raids, but they eventually culminated in the Battles of Khalkhin Gol in 1939, which involved a total of about 100,000 men and a good deal of heavy weaponry (including tanks and aircraft).

Right so under G40 rules, not only is there military strength technically wrong but they should already be Soviet Red. I loved how their territory has a value of zero as if the nation itself is worthless but I get why that’s done to prevent USSR from gaining a massive eco boost due to Japanese aggressiveness.

Even if only for the sake of new players, this is a great idea to implement.  Mongolian rules are too unnecessarily messy.

@Charles:

Even if only for the sake of new players, this is a great idea to implement.  Mongolian rules are too unnecessarily messy.

It’s a half ass attempted to try to get the Soviet-Japanese Non Aggression treaty in play.

Yeah, its too many special rules in this game. It should be none. Looks like the designers want us to be Hitler, Churchill and Stalin and strict follow their historical correct path in something that looks like a scripted game. This is bad. When I play Germany I dont want to mimic Hitler and his mistakes, I want to rule Germany as king Steven Narvik, the new emperor, and I want to attack and conquer Spain, Turkey and my arch enemy Italy. But, the derogatory Rulebook deny me that, and force me to go the historical correct way.

Mongolia should have IPC income, like everybody. China should have factories, planes, ships and no special rules. If the Russian player dont want Japan to move into Mongolia, then the Russian player need to place a stack in some adjacent territory. Not point at the Rulebook, as he do today. No treaty was ever worth the paper they were written on. The arms always did the talking.

For now I’m going with my 2 mongo territories worth 1 ea with 1 inf in ea territory in my 40 game and Russia can activate 1 mongo territory per turn. Pro- Russia. Better than nothing. Plus if Russia gets the NA of treaty then if japan attacks Russia 4 inf pop up.
Maybe in 40 game have mongo territories worth 1 ea and have Russia activate them with no mongo inf in them Use that crazy 18 stack  make
Japan stay back and fight. Stop the Calcutta crush.

Just thoughts man !

You can always add Mongolia as an independent infantry nation:

Scrap all the old rules regarding Mongolia. Mongolia is neutral but may join the Allies if any of the following occurs:
any Axis power invades a Mongolian territory
any Axis power passes between Russia and western China
Japan invades any Russian territory (granted that Russia has not attacked Japanese-controlled Chinese territories adjacent to Mongolia or Korea)
Moscow or Berlin has fallen
the Axis control 5 victory cities on the Pacific map

Mongolia does not use IPCs. Instead, when Mongolia is at war, it places one free infantry in any original Mongolian territory it controls. While neutral, Mongolia may freely move its starting forces within its borders.

Setup: Place the Mongolian infantry as indicated by the silhouettes on the map and then add 1 infantry each to Central Mongolia and Tsagaam-Olom.

See I thought about changing Mongolian values to be a standard pro-Soviet neutral so each territory gets a value of one while the capital territory gets a value of two and then keep the original rules, that way, if Japan decides to get imperialist on USSR, they will gain their military, 7 dollars, and a spot to place a minor should they choose.