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Question: What was the best box art (Avalon Hill through Game Masters)?  (Voting closed: July 31, 2018, 01:36:29 pm)
A&A Classic 1980s - 6 (16.2%)
Fortress America (W/Saddam) - 3 (8.1%)
Fortress America (W/out Saddam) - 0 (0%)
Conquest Empire 1980s - 0 (0%)
A&A Europe 1999 - 5 (13.5%)
A&A Pacific 2001 - 8 (21.6%)
A&A Revised - 1 (2.7%)
A&A Anniversary (Also A&A 1941) - 5 (13.5%)
A&A 1940 Pacific - 2 (5.4%)
A&A 1940 Europe - 2 (5.4%)
A&A 1942 (1st & 2nd ed.) - 1 (2.7%)
A&A Battle of the Bulge - 1 (2.7%)
A&A D-Day - 1 (2.7%)
A&A Guadalcanal - 1 (2.7%)
A&A 1914 - 0 (0%)
Shogun - 0 (0%)
Ikuska - 1 (2.7%)
Broadsides & Boarding Parties - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 17

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Author Topic: Best Box Art  (Read 921 times)
Karl7
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« on: January 12, 2018, 01:36:29 pm »
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What was the best box art?   Up to 3 votes.

I am partial to A&A Pac 2001 because it's based off real art.  Also can't beat the old Fortress America with the opposing sides facing each other. 

The A&A standard of stacking/mashing historical figures and equipment in the middle just never did it more me.
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StuckTojo
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 02:03:43 pm »
+1

Game:                   Why:

A&A Classic (80s)  That big-ass pic of Rommel
Europe 1999         The look on the face of the Russian soldier throwing the grenade   shocked
Pacific 2001          Captures a moment from the most important battle of the Pacific War
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Young Grasshopper
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 02:30:06 pm »
+1

I think I just learned who Lord Curtmungas was  cool
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LHoffman
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 04:27:53 pm »
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Only voting A&A because that's all I am familiar with.

Classic:   Set the standard for the rest. Great mix of stuff on the cover. Rommel is a focal point. Biggest reason - They have all 5 major power flags featured prominently and had the balls to put a swastika on the German one. Either that or they didn't have the same social-political marketing considerations back then. Ah, the 80s...

Anniversary:  Similar to above, but improves on it in many respects. Nearly got all the flags on there well but obscured the Nazi one sufficiently. Excellent mix of ships and aircraft, complete with the Yamato, a USN carrier landing and a freaking Tiger on the move. Probably the best mix of wartime leaders we have yet seen on A&A box art. Overall the best box art for A&A.

D-Day:   Always thought this game was a little underrated on the whole, but I remember long stretches of just admiring the box art. It is extremely expressive and action-oriented. The haziness captures the chaos. Probably could have had something besides a giant Fw-190 in the corner, but I still like it a lot.
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Imperious Leader
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 11:42:24 am »
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Who was Fungus?
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ABWorsham
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2018, 01:55:48 pm »
+2

Game:                   Why:

A&A Classic (80s)  That big-ass pic of Rommel
Europe 1999         The look on the face of the Russian soldier throwing the grenade   shocked
Pacific 2001          Captures a moment from the most important battle of the Pacific War


The giant picture of Rommel is what first caught my eye as a sixteen year old holding my first A&A game.
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Flashman
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 06:55:08 am »
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The one with Hitler on the front.
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StuckTojo
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 07:09:35 am »
+1

I think I just learned who Lord Curtmungas was  cool

Not me, if that's what you're thinking.  I'm not that creative, and I'd need to do a lot of work on my abs, pecs, and biceps to fit the role.   cheesy
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Nowhere Man
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 08:14:37 am »
+1

Only voting A&A because that's all I am familiar with.

Classic: Set the standard for the rest. Great mix of stuff on the cover. Rommel is a focal point. Biggest reason - They have all 5 major power flags featured prominently and had the balls to put a swastika on the German one. Either that or they didn't have the same social-political marketing considerations back then. Ah, the 80s...

Anniversary: Similar to above, but improves on it in many respects. Nearly got all the flags on there well but obscured the Nazi one sufficiently. Excellent mix of ships and aircraft, complete with the Yamato, a USN carrier landing and a freaking Tiger on the move. Probably the best mix of wartime leaders we have yet seen on A&A box art. Overall the best box art for A&A.

I never even thought about this at all... until you mentioned it... to be honest, the original Classic box is the ONLY box to show the German Reich flag... it's completely obscured in every other edition... so much in every edition you can only see a little bit of red.

Political correctness at its finest. I know Germany has laws against it, but I imagine if they make a rule book in German, they can make a different box cover for them too. Come to think about it, if Classic had a clearly displayed swastika on the box (and it did), did Classic not sell in Germany, or did they have different box art for Germany in the 80s, but went full-PC after the 80s ended on all future editions of A&A?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:46:38 am by Nowhere Man » Logged
LHoffman
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 12:28:06 pm »
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Only voting A&A because that's all I am familiar with.

Classic: Set the standard for the rest. Great mix of stuff on the cover. Rommel is a focal point. Biggest reason - They have all 5 major power flags featured prominently and had the balls to put a swastika on the German one. Either that or they didn't have the same social-political marketing considerations back then. Ah, the 80s...

Anniversary: Similar to above, but improves on it in many respects. Nearly got all the flags on there well but obscured the Nazi one sufficiently. Excellent mix of ships and aircraft, complete with the Yamato, a USN carrier landing and a freaking Tiger on the move. Probably the best mix of wartime leaders we have yet seen on A&A box art. Overall the best box art for A&A.

I never even thought about this at all... until you mentioned it... to be honest, the original Classic box is the ONLY box to show the German Reich flag... it's completely obscured in every other edition... so much in every edition you can only see a little bit of red.

Political correctness at its finest. I know Germany has laws against it, but I imagine if they make a rule book in German, they can make a different box cover for them too. Come to think about it, if Classic had a clearly displayed swastika on the box (and it did), did Classic not sell in Germany, or did they have different box art for Germany in the 80s, but went full-PC after the 80s ended on all future editions of A&A?


This topic was literally my first discussion on A&A.org back in 2010. When Europe and Pacific 40 were first introduced there was a lot of discussion on the forums about them. We got into box art and how good or bad it was. I remember being upset that the French flag was so prominent on Europe 40 when the French had a minor role in WWII compared to the big 5. And that the Nazi flag was almost totally obscured. Not that I am a Nazi sympathizer, but I felt that one of symbols most associated with the second world war was not being shown. Only then did I learn about the censorship laws in Germany that would have limited its sale there and probably elsewhere in Europe. I still think it is a wise marketing choice, though unfortunate that it had to be so.

Until now, I really hadn't noticed the difference on Classic. Probably because I have only played Classic once or twice and do not own it.
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Nowhere Man
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 01:26:17 pm »
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For me, I had Classic for a long time before I got the more modern versions of the game, so my copy of Classic is weathered and well-used. To me, I never thought twice about the box art having the German Reich flag with swastika on the box... to me, its nothing more than "well that IS the flag they flew during WWII"... it means nothing more to me. It's like the US should have a flag with 48-stars not 50, because a 48-star flag IS what the US flew during WWII.

I now have the more modern versions of the game, but never once did I even notice that the German flag is completely obscured in every modern version of A&A until I saw your post mentioning this... I went back and did a double-take looking over all my boxes, and by golly, every single German flag is completely obscured on all the newer editions... I never noticed this.

I've known about German censorship laws for a long time... I'm going to avoid the politics debate and just stick to the marketing. I've always assumed the German crosses used in more modern games (where old board games always had swastikas) was for worldwide marketing reasons, because they're just not allowed in Germany... but this begs the question... "What about Classic A&A"... there it is for all the world to see, the German Reich flag on Classic A&A... few in America would bat an eyelash, but I know it's illegal in Germany... did Classic A&A not sell in Germany, or did they release different box art in Germany for Classic? If its the latter, why didn't they keep the Reich flag on modern copies of A&A stateside and just release a different box art for sales in Germany? I mean one trip to the movie theatre or watching a WWII documentary you see swastikas all the time, I'm not sure why box art on a WWII board game is verboten while movies and tv are not? I am really curious about why Classic had it and if Classic was sold in Germany. Those laws have been in place for decades (if not since the end of WWII itself).
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CWO Marc
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 07:36:50 am »
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I mean one trip to the movie theatre or watching a WWII documentary you see swastikas all the time, I'm not sure why box art on a WWII board game is verboten while movies and tv are not? I am really curious about why Classic had it and if Classic was sold in Germany. Those laws have been in place for decades (if not since the end of WWII itself).

I believe that the German laws in question prohibit the swastika from being displayed in most contexts, but make narrow exemptions for certain works of a historical nature such as documentary films.  A board game, even a historical one, probably wouldn't qualify for the exemption. 
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taamvan
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2018, 10:59:31 am »
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The letter of their law regards propaganda; materials prepared and distributed with a political interest.

While one might argue that the display of this on a historical boardgame would be a form of agitation or propaganda, this is quite a difficult argument as the game does not actually aggrandize or promote one ideology over others, quite the contrary, it has them all compete somewhat fairly against each other, and has very little ideological or dogmatic content of any kind.

Nevertheless, the chilling effect of such a speech-restrictive law (that people will not display the symbol even if they have a carved-out exception or the statute explicitly does not appear to apply) is that it would be more cautious and to avoid displaying it, or anything like it, in order to avoid scrutiny, or criticism (these are at the heart of PC, which is not a really a legal phenomenon but one of social taboo and propriety).

Since it adds little to display it, or any other prohibited or restricted symbol, there isn't a particularly good reason to do so, not for marketing, historical accuracy, etc.    Even the Ironkreuz flag, which is a cross, is just as evocative for most modern people, any symbol can be banned under the code 86 its not a list of symbols its a prohibition on their intended use...
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Nowhere Man
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 01:57:12 pm »
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This makes me want to re-watch Das Boot... a German film staring Germans about Germans in WWII... there's got to be some swastikas in there, and if so, how'd they get that bye the censors... it's certainly not a documentary (any more than Axis & Allies is). Did Saving Private Ryan not show in Germany... pretty sure there's swastikas there too. I understand the basic meaning of the German law... they don't want them back in power, marching in the streets, spreading pamphlets, etc... but some things seem a bit silly, like banning swastikas in a board game with no political message to promote, or a movie like Saving Private Ryan, which surely isn't pro-Nazi in any way.
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StuckTojo
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 03:59:22 pm »
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Images of swastikas don't make people flock towards extremist political parties.  Losing world wars, acquiescing to humiliating and crippling treaties, hyper-inflation, mass-unemployment, anarchic street fighting amongst thuggish political factions, and the loss of national sovereignty make people flock to extremist political parties.

This, like most forms of censorship is stupid and betrays not strength but rather the weakness and feeble-mindedness of the intelligentsia and the ruling classes.  While they're at it, they should just stone people publicly for saying "Jehovah".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk


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