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Author Topic: GW 1936 Clarifications  (Read 1748 times)
PanzerPenguin
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« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2017, 05:46:30 am »
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Thats pretty much what we thought, but it wasn't entirely clear to us. Having the Comintern as a 3rd Alliance certainly adds a different dynamic to the game!

We've also come across an odd situation.

France has fallen and Vichy France has been created. It may well be possible for the British to land Airborne in Paris (unoccupied).

Would Paris be considered surrounded in such a state? Germany holds all territory around it EXCEPT for Vichy France, which is Neutral. I am of the opinion that this does not make it surrounded but I am not sure I am entirely correct. (And in the case of France, I assume the same thing applies in regards to who controls each zone? US/UK/French troops can all move through each others territories freely?).
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Rank Carcass
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« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2017, 10:32:39 pm »
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Yeah comintern is a lot of  fun if you can remember, its not just Russia from global 40.

As for surrounded Paris. I would agree with you. For any other city to be surrounded It must be completed surrounded by controlled players not neutrals. But this one is odd since Germany is collecting vichy income. So I can see the other option is also possible.

You must give members of your alliance their original territories. Table 4-2

Once Allies are at war with the same major power and aligned they can all move into the same land zone, Same with Axis. But it would be a declaration of war if the nations were not aligned yet. This is why Britain can't reinforce france until they are both at war with Germany.  Same applies to all other nations no mater if they are Allies, Axis or Comintern.
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PanzerPenguin
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2017, 08:24:31 am »
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Yeah, we got that. So 'liberating' France goes to the Free-French as far as income etc is concerned.

In our game, the SCW was ongoing when Germany DOW USSR, so Spain is...interesting. Since Nat. Spain turns 'German' there are German territories that the Allies can move into.  USSR is holed up in Madrid (mostly just infantry remaining) so it may turn into a USSR Island surrounded by Axis/Allied Territories.
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Credulous
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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2018, 04:53:17 am »
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My first question is (probably a dumb one), but how do you ask questions on the FAQ at globalwargame.com? For me when on the FAQ page it says, 'You are not permitted to post here', and I cannot see anywhere to 'register'.

My second question(s) relate to some clarifications on CAP. I have already reviewed all the responses on the globalwargame.com FAQ, and these remain as outstanding questions for me:

1. An aircraft moves independently of carrier like in A&A is a working assumption. So a carrier based plane can only go on CAP within one space of the space the carrier starts its turn in. But the carrier (or another carrier) could pick it up in another space adjacent to where the CAP plane is? Or it could land in a friendly (again adjacent) territory, leaving the carrier to move as it wishes? (the rule book would imply not with regards to landing in a neighbouring territory or a different carrier with the stipulation must return to 'their carrier' - but it doesn't seem to require the carrier to be in the same space).
2. The rulebook states that CAP planes can 'decline combat' with 'surface ships that do not include a carrier'. What if a load of ships but also planes move in but no carrier. Can the CAP plane decline combat with the ships, but has to fight all the planes still? Or does it fight everything? Or can it avoid combat with everything? Most likely answer seems to be can decline combat with the ships but still has to fight the planes, but can someone confirm?
3. Carriers with planes on (whether on CAP or not) force subs to fight a round of combat if they enter their sea zone, meaning as an alternative to the movement limitation of 1 associated with CAP, you can move the carrier and the plane up to three spaces to engage a sub. i.e. when a carrier is also present in the SZ you are attempting to engage a sub in, CAP is no longer required for the associated aircraft in the battle.
4. Due to 3. above a sub could convoy raid in a sea zone with a defending carrier with planes or a fleet with an overflying aircraft on CAP, but would need to fight a round of combat first? Or would the battle with the defending forces mean it can't convoy raid. Given the +2 bonus for aircraft on CAP for convoy raiding (but only when sharing the sea zone with the offending sub), and the answers to some other questions on globalwargame.com I believe its the former, but worth checking.

My third question relates to Control:

If you have control of a minor and can therefore spend its IPPs, move its units do you have to do this before or after you do the phases for the major power you are playing, or can you choose? Presume naval units under your control can move wherever you want? (Land units are clearly heavily restricted within the rule book - navy comparatively ambiguous!). i.e. you can run away with the controlled ships and try to save them until the power aligns with you later (not too shabby if a cruiser!).

I really want to post these questions on globalwargame.com but can't so if someone else is able to then feel free to plagiarise!

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Cred
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Chris_Henry
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« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2018, 08:52:34 am »
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Hey Credulous,

To answer your Global War page question first. When you go to the website, go to the "Global FAQ" page. From there, if you scroll down the right hand side of the page, you'll see a subsection called "Meta". There you will see a "Log In" option. That's where you can create your user name and password. I'm glad to copy and paste your question though if you can't log in still.

To answer your Controlled Minor's question, you move controlled minors at the same time as the controlling major powers turn. So I suppose it doesn't really matter in what order you do it, so long as it's within the controlling major powers turn order. And you're correct re naval units. You're free to move them around at your leisure if you so choose.

For the CAP questions, I guess I'll preface by saying these are my understandings of the rule set. I guess I won't sit here and say my understanding is 100% correct if there are any ambiguities.

I would agree with your understating of question #1. I think you have to land on the same carrier, though if it moves, you can still land. It just needs to continue to be one space away.

For question #2, I believe the rule was implied to mean if aircraft are in the territory/space (as in, I know it says aircraft carrier, but I think the implication was because it would have planes on it). My thought is the opposite of yours though, I've always treated like the A&A rule with subs (if a destroyer present, all units can attack), so if a plane present, all units can attack. Though I am not sure there, so is a good question for the creators, or anyone with more knowledge than I here!

For #3, if a plane is on CAP, you cannot move it differently in combat movement. So a sub would have to enter that CAP zone, your CAP plane cannot move to meet the submarine in another zone.

For #4, the convoy raiding sub would not fight a battle first if what they are doing is convoy raiding. The convoy raiding combat rules would take effect with any ships that were on convoy duty after the convoy raiding was done, but no regular combat would happen first. On the other nations turn they would be free to attack the sub on their combat movement turn, but in terms of convoy raiding they would have no effect unless on convoy duty.

All good questions to have creators clarify though! Let me know if you would like me to copy over.
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Credulous
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« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2018, 12:55:37 am »
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Great response - thanks.

I tried the login page but couldnít see anywhere to register but maybe I missed it, will try again over weekend.

#2 highlights how ambiguous some of the rules in this area are in that we have both read the rule book and reached completely different conclusions.

#4 makes sense now you say it - itís like doing a strategic bombing raid in a zone with enemy units in it, so I believe is the correct interpretation of the rule - thank you.

#3 I may not have been clear but all I was saying that when making your combat moves if you want to attack a sub, you can attack a sub up to three spaces away by sending in a carrier in with fighters as CAP is no longer required. I think this is pretty clear in the rules but wanted to give people a chance to challenge.

Will post on the HBG forum later.

Cred
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Credulous
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« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2018, 01:52:23 am »
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Hey Credulous,

To answer your Global War page question first. When you go to the website, go to the "Global FAQ" page. From there, if you scroll down the right hand side of the page, you'll see a subsection called "Meta". There you will see a "Log In" option. That's where you can create your user name and password. I'm glad to copy and paste your question though if you can't log in still.

To answer your Controlled Minor's question, you move controlled minors at the same time as the controlling major powers turn. So I suppose it doesn't really matter in what order you do it, so long as it's within the controlling major powers turn order. And you're correct re naval units. You're free to move them around at your leisure if you so choose.

Hey again Chris, having checked the website again, there doesn't seem to be a create an account option. If you go on login you can just reset password for an existing account. Therefore would you mind posting my questions?

On controlled minors (just to be 100% sure), you do the phases for a controlled minor concurrently to your main power controlling them, rather than do the entire turn for your main power then the entire turn for the controlled minor (or vice versa). From the way you've written and the implications for the game if it were the latter (for example lend leasing to Spanish Nationalists as Germany and then being able to use that lend lease immediately in the Spanish Nationalist's 'turn') I'm pretty certain its the former?
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Rank Carcass
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« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2018, 09:54:21 am »
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Credulous you will need to contact someone at HBG.com to setup your account. I did. Its their buy cars gere spam filter
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Credulous
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« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2018, 12:59:05 pm »
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Thank you Rank Carcass. I figured that might be the case (I enjoy your videos btw).

Chris >Feel free to post the questions in the meantime!


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Credulous
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« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2018, 01:10:21 pm »
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Also to add....

On my question #4. - the Convoy raiding section of the quick reference card appears to imply that actually if a sub moves into a space with carrier bourne aircraft or aircraft on CAP then these planes do get to attack before the sub gets to convoy - '1. Submarines move into sea zone, to conduct raiding. They are subject to attack by any aircraft on CAP or on an aircraft carrier'.



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Credulous
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« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2018, 01:47:28 pm »
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Just seen your video on this topic Rank Carcass. Thanks for posting.

Only thing I'm not sure I agree with is the point you make about not being able to send a carrier in to engage a sub without needing a plane on CAP. That seems to go against the bottom of page 37 of the manual, 'Combat Moving into a Zone with a Submarine', where it states:

'When other units combat move into a zone that contains a submarine that submarine may decline combat with those units and those units may continue moving if desired; unless there is at least one aircraft on Combat Air Patrol, or a carrier with aircraft. ÔŅĹ The submarine may instead force those units to stop and engage in combat.'

Based on that I think you can engage a sub up to three (four from a naval base) spaces away, you just have to send in a carrier (with planes)....

Also what's your interpretation of the rule on CAP fighters being able to decline naval combat unless a carrier is present? (which your video probably didn't cover as nothing to do with subs.....)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 01:56:22 pm by Credulous » Logged
Rank Carcass
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« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2018, 10:22:14 am »
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Just seen your video on this topic Rank Carcass. Thanks for posting.

Thank you! It would be easier for me if you comment on videos there rather than here it may be a long time before I see the posts here. I don't have notifications for most topics here. Plus , if someone has the same question, especially good ones like this, I can keep myself organized. Maybe lol.

Only thing I'm not sure I agree with is the point you make about not being able to send a carrier in to engage a sub without needing a plane on CAP. That seems to go against the bottom of page 37 of the manual, 'Combat Moving into a Zone with a Submarine', where it states:

'When other units combat move into a zone that contains a submarine that submarine may decline combat with those units and those units may continue moving if desired; unless there is at least one aircraft on Combat Air Patrol, or a carrier with aircraft. � The submarine may instead force those units to stop and engage in combat.'

US is moving farther than its CAP range, to an area with a German sub and a British carrier that has are least 1 aircraft. The British plane is considered to be on CAP with a range of zero (same zone). This will spot the sub. Us aircraft would not unless put on CAP in the zone with the german sub.
Provided both nations are at war together. At peace nation would not assist or engage.


Based on that I think you can engage a sub up to three (four from a naval base) spaces away, you just have to send in a carrier (with planes)....
Yes if an allied nation has a carrier or CAP in the area. Otherwise no if out of range for your own CAP
Also what's your interpretation of the rule on CAP fighters being able to decline naval combat unless a carrier is present? (which your video probably didn't cover as nothing to do with subs.....)
True I didnt cover it, but should have lol. My understanding is you floated in an airport designed to see planes. So you probably find the CAP defender. Otherwise they may be able to evade A single destroyer etc..

If anyone is curious as to the mentioned video
https://youtu.be/twsWUJdTaJs
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 10:38:29 am by Rank Carcass » Logged
Credulous
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« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2018, 02:30:09 pm »
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Thanks - sorry I was going to post on the vid but my google account appears to be my real name which I can't seem to change easily and I don't really want to paste that all over YouTube. So did on A&A.org instead.

I understand what you are saying (that is a carrier only counts as 'with planes' if it is already in the SZ by virtue of being an ally's ship - if this is the case then the rulebook needs to spell that out a lot better!). I've also gone back to the globalwargame.com FAQ and looked at the CAP questions again.

The best CAP thread is the one with 9 answers entitled, 'How to Hunt Submarines Convoy Raiding'. The last answer on there is the most relevant although it still seems a little ambiguous to me, but appears to imply the interpretation you have provided could very well be correct.

http://www.globalwargame.com/www/question/how-to-hunt-submarines-convoy-raiding/?ans-page=2

So basically whilst the rulebook would appear to state to me that you either have to send in a plane on CAP or a carrier with planes to attack a submarine for one round of combat (before it gets the opportunity to submerge regardless of what you do), in actuality you always need a plane on CAP.


Don't suppose you could PM me Doug, or Will's email so I can ask them to set me up an account on their website and try and clear this up once and for all?

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Rank Carcass
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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2018, 02:28:57 pm »
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Thanks - sorry I was going to post on the vid but my google account appears to be my real name which I can't seem to change easily and I don't really want to paste that all over YouTube. So did on A&A.org instead.
No worries, I understand and agree.

I understand what you are saying (that is a carrier only counts as 'with planes' if it is already in the SZ by virtue of being an ally's ship - if this is the case then the rulebook needs to spell that out a lot better!). I've also gone back to the globalwargame.com FAQ and looked at the CAP questions again.
Houserule in anything you want. First few plays we ignored cap etc. And played same rules as global40. It's a harder game but more fun with cap to me!

The best CAP thread is the one with 9 answers entitled, 'How to Hunt Submarines Convoy Raiding'. The last answer on there is the most relevant although it still seems a little ambiguous to me, but appears to imply the interpretation you have provided could very well be correct.
Yeah I read that it could also be interpreted as anywhere carriers are moved to. and a plane is used to cap and land on that carrier in the same zone. Get a consensus and house rule it.. some things are better that way than waiting in an answer.

http://www.globalwargame.com/www/question/how-to-hunt-submarines-convoy-raiding/?ans-page=2

So basically whilst the rulebook would appear to state to me that you either have to send in a plane on CAP or a carrier with planes to attack a submarine for one round of combat (before it gets the opportunity to submerge regardless of what you do), in actuality you always need a plane on CAP.
That's how I understand they want this. Simulated air gap and spread out the allies fleet to hunt subs. Instead of multiple dday style landings early...

Don't suppose you could PM me Doug, or Will's email so I can ask them to set me up an account on their website and try and clear this up once and for all?
Love to but I don't have it.. I contact them via their sales site contact us options.

I just play this game and am not affiliated with HBG...
My only criticism is always just edit the rules first then make new stuff afterwards!
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Chris_Henry
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« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2018, 09:41:23 am »
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Hey Credulous! Sorry, didn't log in for a few days. I'll PM you Doug and Will's emails now. I'll also post your questions to the Global War page!
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