December 17, 2017, 04:18:08 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Read all about what's new on the Axis & Allies .org Website Search me
  Articles  
   Home   Help Login Register AACalc  
Loading
Poll
Question: When the time comes to evacuate Moscow, what direction do you prefer to go?  (Voting closed: September 14, 2017, 10:34:41 pm)
South, link up with British M. East Wall - 10 (50%)
North, link up with Americans Norway-Novgor - 0 (0%)
No retreat! Perfect time for Allied landing in W. Europe. - 10 (50%)
China? 🤷🏼‍♂️ - 0 (0%)
Other - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 20

Pages: « 1 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Moscow retreat  (Read 735 times)
JDOW
A&A.org Heavy Bomber
*
*
*******
Posts: 5823


Hope dies last!


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2017, 12:09:37 am »
+2

The answer is, as in most cases, "it depends!:)

If e.g. the Allies have Norway, marching Northwest to unify the troops in Novogorod can be an option too.

In A&A there are no clear answers on those questions in the vacuum, although retreating to Samara and then South is the most likely scenario.
Logged
PainState
A&A.org Artillery
**
Posts: 145



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2017, 05:52:43 am »
0

On this subject I think there are only two choices,

#1 Retreat south to link up with the UK, protect the middle east and hopefully make a last stand at Baghdad/ Cairo.

#2 Retreat East or North East.

IMHO you always choose #2. Make Germany have to split their forces to chase a large Russian stack east and split to offer resistance to a stack of UK units in the south.

IF the USA is in Norway that is even better. USA to the North, large Russian stack that retreated from Moscow in the East and a UK land force in the South.  IF Russian retreats south then you just eliminated one threat for Germany. Instead of three fronts it is now only two. Why allow Germany an easier path to victory? Make them choose between 3 options instead of 2.

** Side Note **

If the game gets to this point it is imperative that a Western Invasion happens, does not matter where or in what strength. The Allies need to open up the 4th front on the Western side. Either directly at Germany on continent or going into Italy. Even if the initial invasion is thrown off make sure you have a second invasion ready.

** Foot note **

On the poll question the proper response is not a answer. You retreat East and then North east. Make Germany push units to the top of the board, way out of position. Japan you ask? Do you think Japan has any intentions of pushing 20+ land units to the top of the map and be totally out of position to attack the Russians?  It is not just forcing Germany to make a hard choice you are also making Japan make a even harder choice. Japan can ill afford to be putting a large stack in the north of Russia to contend with them, they have larger concerns in this scenario.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:14:11 am by PainState » Logged
larrymarx
A&A.org Artillery
**
Posts: 168


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2017, 07:48:35 am »
0

As Germany I would leave a defensive force in Moscow to dissuade the Russians from coming back and send enough to the middle east to crush it and become an economic beast. If the Russians move to the top of the map they have put themselves out of position.
Logged
PainState
A&A.org Artillery
**
Posts: 145



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2017, 09:41:39 am »
+1

As Germany I would leave a defensive force in Moscow to dissuade the Russians from coming back and send enough to the middle east to crush it and become an economic beast. If the Russians move to the top of the map they have put themselves out of position.

Well, your response is the 'point' of what Iam saying.

IF Russia goes East, you *(Germany) have chosen to split your force and send some South and keep some in Moscow. At least Russia made you make a choice. This is very important. When you force your foe to think and make choices there is most likely a opportunity later on that your foe miscalculated and messes up. Left to much in Moscow or pushed to much towards the Middle East.

IF Russia goes south then there is no choice. Germany takes their stack, follows the Russian stack, they tango on down to the Middle East and at some point a climatic mega throw down happens and Germany still becomes a economic beast. There is no chance that Russia can capitalize on a German mistake because there is 0% chance of a mistake if all Germany is doing is pushing their stack next to the Russian stack and moving south to the Middle East and towards Cairo.

There is always the chance that Germany splits their forces and still plays a sound game and wins. Then again you never gave your self a chance to exploit a mistake by just forming one huge stack in the Middle East and roll some dice and hope it comes up good. I would rather rely on the human aspect of the game to look at a tactical situation and make something out of it instead of just loading up the big stack battle in a calculator and hope that I win the 97.28% Battle that I should lose. I will acknowledge that sometimes the best tactic is to just form a huge stack and see if your foe has the guts to actually attack it and if he does hope the dice are kind. I do not think this discussion falls under that dire scenario yet.
Logged
larrymarx
A&A.org Artillery
**
Posts: 168


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2017, 04:46:26 pm »
0

In general, I agree with what you are saying. My theory is that it's better to take two equal but losing positions on separate areas of the board than to take one position of strength. The problem in this case is that the northern Russian stack and British-held oilfields, although in separate areas of the board, aren't equal positions - Britian is much easier to take down and the reward is much higher. Therefore, in this case there is no alternative but to take one position of strength.

The assumption behind my first comment was that if the Russians link up with the British, the combined stack would actually be enough to create such a position and keep the Germans at bay. In a game where it cannot, what have the Allies been doing for 8+ rounds?

The two scenarios I can think of where the Allies still have a chance after Moscow falls, but the British are weak in the Middle East are 1) Japan does something like an India crush that targets Britain or 2) Britain and America have been making landings in Western Europe. In either of those scenarios, if Russia is to retreat, I agree they should not go down south.

If neither scenario applies, and the British have been attempting to build strength in the Middle East, yet it isn't enough to stop Germany even with the entire Russian stack, the appropriate move is to concede.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 04:54:42 pm by larrymarx » Logged
Pages: « 1 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

2017 Support Drive

Read about this support drive.
Support Level
Forum Username
Note: payee will appear as Livid Labs, LLC.
Buy Axis & Allies
  • Axis & Allies 1942 [Amazon]
  • A&A Pacific 1940 [Amazon]
  • A&A Europe 1940 [FMG]
  • [eBay]
  • [eBay]
  • A&A D-Day [Amazon]
  • A&A Battle of the Bulge [Amazon]
  • [eBay]
  • [eBay]
  • WWII Themed Combat Dice [FMG]



Axis and Allies.org Official Gold Sponsor: Historical Board Gaming

Axis & Allies.org Official Silver Sponsor: Field Marchal Games
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP © 2015 Livid Labs, LLC. All rights reserved.
Axis & Allies is registered trademark of Wizards of the Coast, a division of Hasbro, Inc.
Note: the copyright below is for the forum software only.
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!