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Author Topic: Yes, but what about the original Axis and Allies?  (Read 2083 times)
Wolfshanze
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« on: December 30, 2016, 11:45:16 am »
+1

Chalk this up as questions one asks just to ask... but I couldn't help but notice we had a forum dedicated to "Axis and Allies 2nd Edition" (released in 1986)... this begs to ask, if you're going to get this picky, where is the "Axis and Allies 1st Edition" (released in 1984)?

To be totally fair, i'm sure there's not enough traffic to justify two forums for basically the same out-of-print game that doesn't get much traffic to begin with, but if that's the case, why is there a forum "only" for the 2nd edition of Classic?

Shouldn't there just be ONE forum for "Axis and Allies Classic" (and shouldn't we drop the "2nd edition" as it might get confused with the current 2nd edition sets currently in print?).

I think just "Axis and Allies Classic" would be good enough, if you want release dates say either "1984-1986" or "1980s".
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zooooma
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 08:46:44 am »
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Was there actually a Game Master version sold as anything other than 2nd edition?  I have never seen one.

I have come to the strong suspicion that Milton Bradley's big box A&A was always called 2nd edition, simply to distinguish it from the Nova Games "bookcase" version.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 11:02:36 am by zooooma » Logged
Krieghund
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2017, 01:00:53 pm »
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Yes, there was.  The MB version of A&A was originally released in 1984.  The 2nd edition was released in 1986, with altered rules but the exact same physical components.  (The 1st edition rules were heavily imbalanced toward the Allies.)  There were actually 3rd edition rules, but they were released only with the computer version of the game in 1997.

Referring to Classic as "2nd edition" has indeed caused much confusion over the years, for the reason that you mention.  The original nomenclature of "2nd edition" was intended to differentiate it from the 1st and 3rd edition MB rules, but it has far outlived its original purpose.  Many people now don't even know about the MB 1st or 3rd edition rules, so the continued use of "2nd edition" to refer to Classic just causes them to assume that the Nova version is the "1st edition".  In fact, the Nova and MB versions are as different from one another as 1940 is from Classic.
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zooooma
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2017, 01:56:53 pm »
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Many people now don't even know about the MB 1st or 3rd edition rules, so the continued use of "2nd edition" to refer to Classic just causes them to assume that the Nova version is the "1st edition".  In fact, the Nova and MB versions are as different from one another as 1940 is from Classic.
I have a copy of the Nova Games edition, so I'm aware of the differences.  I came to believe that was the "1st edition" because every GM set I've ever seen over all the years has had the same rulebook.  I'm fascinated to learn there was an actual 1st edition MB game.
There were guys I used to play with who refered to the CDrom rules as 3rd edition.  Did the disc come with a paper copy or PDF?

@ Wolfshanze,
It's interesting, there are separate sections for the 1942 1st and 2nd editions, but not for the 1940 1st and 2nd editions or the Gamemaster 1st and 2nd edition.
Maybe the idea is to have separate thread iff there was a (nontrivial) change made to the map?
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2017, 02:09:41 pm »
+1

I came to believe that was the "1st edition" because every GM set I've ever seen over all the years has had the same rulebook.  I'm fascinated to learn there was an actual 1st edition MB game.

A PDF of the 1st edition rules can be found here.


There were guys I used to play with who refered to the CDrom rules as 3rd edition.  Did the disc come with a paper copy or PDF?

It was a PDF.
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zooooma
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 08:35:17 am »
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Thanks, Kreig, that was a fun read.

Looking back, I kind of wish I'd gotten hold of the 3rd edition PDF twenty years ago and tried it out.

Maybe if I ever dust off my GM edition I could try those rules.  Not sure how likely that is though.
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Der Kuenstler
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 07:26:42 pm »
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I still have a copy of the 1st edition 1984 rules, though the old box has dissolved...
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Wolfshanze
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2017, 09:12:44 pm »
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Was there actually a Game Master version sold as anything other than 2nd edition?  I have never seen one.

Most definately is... as the 1984 MB version of A&A with 1st edition printed rules is sitting in my closet... I bought it in Highschool in 1984... i was already in the Air Force and stopped playing A&A by 1986 when the 2nd edition came out.

30 years later, this forum really should drop the "2nd edition" name... it's both pointless and confusing (also kinda insulting to us "true A&A original players"... people act like the two years I played before everyone else from the 2nd edition don't count.

As for the rules difference, the only REAL rule difference between 1st and 2nd edition was 1st edition had the Commander-in-Chief rules, which did favor the Allies quite a bit... other than that, there's no real difference between the two versions, and trying to seperate them and de-legitimize the 1st edition players like we didn't exist is kinda mean!
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Der Kuenstler
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2017, 04:33:59 am »
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As for the rules difference, the only REAL rule difference between 1st and 2nd edition was 1st edition had the Commander-in-Chief rules, which did favor the Allies quite a bit... other than that, there's no real difference between the two versions, and trying to seperate them and de-legitimize the 1st edition players like we didn't exist is kinda mean!

There were more differences than that - you could also place a factory in a territory you just captured and place unlimited units on any factory, regardless of the IPC value of the TT. 
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Wolfshanze
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 09:16:14 am »
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Nitpicking the rules differences is not really the point of this thread... the Milton Bradley Axis and Allies of the 1980s came out in 1984, not 1986... the 1986 version may have been more widely printed, but the game board and units were all the same, the only difference was some rules changes.

To slap down this only thread for the original A&A as "2nd edition" only for some reason seems really odd, and with the release of current "2nd edition" A&A prints, also confusing to boot. It seems an alienation of A&A 1984 1st edition players as "irrelevant" for no reason, and can confuse people with "which 2nd edition are you talking about".

They should just really rename this forum "Axis and Allies Classic" and call it a day... it's all-inclusive of the 1984 and later editions and printings, and is something everyone would recognize and not confuse with the current 2nd edition printings.
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Der Kuenstler
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 04:11:16 pm »
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I think just "Axis and Allies Classic" would be good enough, if you want release dates say either "1984-1986" or "1980s".

I agree this would be good...
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Wolfshanze
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 10:40:17 am »
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Now that we have new active moderators, not sure if this is within their power, but I'd still go by my previous statement...

They should just really rename this forum "Axis and Allies Classic" and call it a day... it's all-inclusive of the 1984 and later editions and printings, and is something everyone would recognize and not confuse with the current 2nd edition printings.

I think calling this the A&A 2nd Edition is blurring the line too much with current "2nd Ed" printings, and there are plenty of owners/players of the original that still have/use the 1984 1st Edition set (such as myself).
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P@nther
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 12:52:07 pm »
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Now that we have new active moderators, not sure if this is within their power, ...

I am afraid it is not, as we can act inside the given forum structure, but not modify the structure (here rename a (sub-) forum title) itself.
But I am sure djensen will notice your thread in the "Website/Forum Discussion"-sub-forum.

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Cmdr Jennifer
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 12:57:13 pm »
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Now that we have new active moderators, not sure if this is within their power, ...

I am afraid it is not, as we can act inside the given forum structure, but not modify the structure (here rename a (sub-) forum title) itself.
But I am sure djensen will notice your thread in the "Website/Forum Discussion"-sub-forum.



Spthththttht to you too. Tongue

Never knew about the 3rd edition rules.  Though I had the CDROM game - it's where I first learned about the Russian wall on the far east instead of how friends and I played where we just ran away with the Russians.

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CWO Marc
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 06:11:04 am »
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Another option would be to rename that board section "Axis & Allies (Milton Bradley)", which would cover the two versions that Milton Bradley produced (1984 and 1986) and would sidestep the whole question of whether they're numbered editions.  In principle, there could even be a new board section called "Axis & Allies (Nova Games)" to cover the oldest version of the game, if it's felt that such a section is needed (for completeness reasons, if for nothing else).
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