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Author Topic: All the Russian openings: For Begginers  (Read 17353 times)
craykirk
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« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2015, 06:42:48 pm »
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The game is over very soon.  I just want to understand how Russia is supposed to open a game without getting stomped.  I'm just playing to get some experience and so far, that is exactly what it has been...  An experience.   grin

The TripleA AI nor any of my friends that play every have done anything like this.  In fact, my friends have decided that the game is basically unplayable as the Allies much like the first game was for the Axis.  I didn't even consider that stacking West Russia basically forces Germany to hit it.  I refuse to admit I threw away $120 on a copy for me and a friend...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 06:47:19 pm by craykirk » Logged
Cow
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« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2015, 07:43:00 pm »
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Use my scientifically proven setup of 1942 2nd edition.

If you cant get someone to use additional unit setup... you got to bid... you need 16-24 ipcs for the allies...
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Black_Elk
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« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2015, 08:14:29 pm »
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If both players are on an equal footing a bomber bid to Russia can be fun, but going up against someone like Cow who digs Axis and has a good grasp of the blitz, I think more hitpoints on the bid would have been advisable.

It's very hard to back the Germans off W. Russia if you leave both Belo and Ukraine alive. The Baltic states opening I described in this thread calls for 1 inf 1 art and 1 fighter and was noted as a gambit, meaning you're just trying to trip the other guy up on an equal trade, or a trade at advantage, counting on luck. This allows you to send an additional hitpoint into the W. Russia fight. But even then it can be tight. Your fighter landing choices may have helped sealed the deal psychologically for the Germans, since they were flown out of range of the north.

I think the best use for the bomber is in an attack on Ukraine, so you can hold Caucasus instead of having to trade it Wink
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Cow
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« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2015, 10:46:29 pm »
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Yeah I just went with the easy win strategy. bomber + 9 guys, next round bring the heat with some armor, round after that start defending against europe drops.

I am still torn as to getting bomber + inf/arty or armor + inf/arty round 1. I like armor so I can hold karelia round 2 even if russia buys some too.
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craykirk
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« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2015, 03:02:52 am »
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First time for everything, I wanted to give it a try since none of the games I've played with my friends have gone more than 3 rounds before the Allies surrender.  This doesn't give a lot of time for developing any sort of strategy for the Allies.  My attacks on Ukraine have historically had very poor outcomes.  I still don't really understand how it is to my advantage to throw a round of dice at a group of units which is stronger defensively than than I am offensively in the hopes that I will get good dice and they will get bad?  How does it help me to throw away units?

I'll look for Cow's setup and see if I can convince anyone to give the game a 2nd look.  I play the TripleA AI occasionally however it just isn't very talkative and doesn't seem interested in having a beer or two during the game.   wink

Thanks for the patience...
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Cow
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« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2015, 05:12:04 am »
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Yeah the allies do not get to have fun in this map.  Russia cant deadzone karelia for long, G2 it is an easy hold. Especially if germany bought 4 armor on round 1.  12 inf aa gun and 14-15 armor, wam bam russia got nothin on that.

Meanwhile the allies do not have any attacks. USA and UK do not get rolling at all, in either theater. USA starts out losing HARD in the pacific half and has to do LOTS of build up in order to get something going in the Atlantic half. So what are you supposed to do? Just roll over and die? Seems that is what the developers had in mind.

That is why it takes such a huge bid.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 05:14:34 am by Cow » Logged
Oddbjoern
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« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2015, 05:54:37 am »
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craykirk: Just so I understand the opening correctly, was Germany hitting the W. Russia stack with everything possible, ie: 6inf, 1 art, 3 Tanks (I understood you killed the baltic tanks in R1?), 4 planes and 1 bomber?
If so that is a really cutsy move by Germany =) Its the kind of move I would hope Germany would do against me in a game without a bid as it is one of the few things that could result in such a huge catastrof that could lead to an allied victory.
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Cow
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« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2015, 06:10:18 am »
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Yeah I went nuts. #YOLOSWAG

The allies look depressing now. I never play the allies below 18 for a reason.
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DarthMaximus
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« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2015, 06:42:10 am »
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Yeah the allies do not get to have fun in this map.  Russia cant deadzone karelia for long, G2 it is an easy hold. Especially if germany bought 4 armor on round 1.  12 inf aa gun and 14-15 armor, wam bam russia got nothin on that.

That is incorrect.

A "typical" R1 buy is 4 inf, 3 rt.  So on R2, you are looking at

1-2 inf Belo (since it doesn't seem like Ger is bleeding any off and is gunning straight for Kar.
7  to start in Wrus
2 inf Arch

Now your rd 1 buy of 4 inf, 3 rt + 1 inf Kaz, 1 novo brings your rd 2 numbers up to:

15-16 inf, 6 rt, 4 arm.  Now here's the difference, Russia gets to see the G1 buy of 4 arm and can counter on its Rd 2 buy with 3 or 4 armor of its own.  We will go 3.

SO, Russia has a stack of 15 inf, 6 rt, 7 arm, 2 ftrs aimed at Kar.

That is deadzoned.  Now it may not be a lot of margin for error, but it is possible.  And that is with NO bid and only a 3 arm counter by Russia.  Now of course I made some assumptions, but I also don't think it is just easy to say Germany can put X units here and assume there isn't a possible counter.

It works out about the same with an 8 inf R1 buy, only your countering force is 19 inf, 3 rt, 7 arm, 2 ftrs.  You're still projected to clear with maybe 2-4 units.  I think it is about 60% for the Allies.

If G bought 5 armor rd 1 you will need 4 on Rus 2.

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Cow
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« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2015, 07:31:05 am »
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Japan flies air in from sz 34 with the starting bomber from japan and it is a done deal for the axis to hold.

You can deadzone Karelia for a few rounds, not for long if you have to buy armor, which is what Germany wants, easier to kill an armor than 2 inf. As Germany having caucasus dead zoned ruins the total # of units the allies can put on the map drastically. Allies already start the game without being able to put units on the map, they can make boats and oceans sure, it dont matter if you lose Russia because you had to buy tanks for so long.

Plus are you really going to attack that? like that is everything from you. Germany will be fine, Germany will be okay taking that loss.
~
you just reinforced why such a big bid is necessary.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 07:41:19 am by Cow » Logged
DarthMaximus
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« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2015, 08:30:43 am »
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I agree. Germany will take Kar.
My focus as the Allies (Russia) is to try and delay it until G3. I think there is a huge difference from G2 to G3.

At least in rd 3, UK/US have a something going in the Atlantic. By then you can have the BB/Cru and UK Cru (from Aus) off of Afr (token threat to Fra/Ita) and some trns floating around. Plus US AC rd 1 buy followed by US AC in rd 2. So that by rd 4 you can be up by sz 6 comfortably. Unless you are beelining Sz 3 with US from rd 1 on and going with a northern shuck.
That's if you are going full on KGF. At least they can have something going.
It definitely feels bad or overwhelming seeing G camped out in Kar on G2 and it seems like the Allies are miles away in the Atlantic. So I try to project the threat to Kar and see if I can keep G out until rd 3.

Cauc is never really an issue. Ger tends to go Bal, then Kar. So that leaves Ukr as an early deadzone so Cauc is safe for placement.

You also get a nice supply of UK troops to Cauc once they are forced to evacuate India. Hopefully you won't have to flee until UK 4 or later, but even on UK 4, you'll have 3 builds, 9 extra units plus your starting units and it is a decent force to head to Cauc. You should have the 2 US inf from Sze as well. They are good for 2 trades of Russian boarder territories.

It is definitely a challenge though. smiley


« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 08:32:18 am by DarthMaximus » Logged
Cow
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« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2015, 01:25:15 pm »
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It is just not a huge deal for germany to be deadzoned in karelia if he gets caucasus out of it as well. income wise it is pretty good.
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craykirk
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« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2015, 03:38:26 pm »
+1

As if I couldn't feel any worse about my play...   cry

it's been a real fustercluck.  Great moves combined with poor dice mean Game Over Man, Game Over!  Where is Bill Paxton when you need him?  German defensive dice have been brutal...

It was 5 fighters and a bomber, AA missed and the first German attack was pretty hard.  The Russian response was, as they say, meh... sad
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 03:47:52 pm by craykirk » Logged
Cow
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« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2015, 03:59:30 pm »
-1

Also nothing stops the G4 holding it down at west russia, at that point you cannot hold both Caucasus and Russia. Allies have to give it up smooth even if they have india in the mix at caucasus.

The allies get rolled really hard. All the bunnies agree.
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Black_Elk
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« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2015, 05:58:20 pm »
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I feel for you man. It's like you hopped into the ring with Eye of the Tiger playing over the loud speakers, ready to rock, but then got immediately cold clocked and Xenomorphed straight through the chest!
 grin

Its kind of a bummer to get Cow stomped the first time out. He went Bovine belligerent on you!
No time to chew the cud and ruminate. Alas, no chance to play around with the Red bomber.

I don't know that many other players would have taken that shot on you right out the gate in the slightly better than 50% range. I guess if it was a roulette wheel, and you bet on red, but he was the house. And anyways, always bet on black, or you might get sniped! hehe
Wink


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