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Author Topic: Bid a carrier in z98  (Read 2122 times)
variance
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2015, 03:24:13 pm »
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Looking forward to testing this bid variance  grin

The possibility of 2 loaded UK carriers ending in SZ97 is great ... would give the UK a compelling reason to claim Greece too.

It's a strong bid.

Germany might respond by purchasing 3 fighters in order to increase its attack odds in case UK stacks in sz97 or sz 92.  However, though 3 figs are a good investment, they do not bring Germany closer to taking London or Moscow.  And UK can, if faced with 15 German aircraft, simply forego the 97 megastack.

This could play a role in pushing the "standard" bid down to 15, which is still a reasonable amount for Allies imho.

Personally I would not want to play against UK with that extra carrier, so $15 would have to be the limit.
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knp7765
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2015, 08:12:12 pm »
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To all the guys who say you don't need a bid, I think its a lot different playing online versus face to face.  Online players typically use an odds calculator before every little battle so things are very tight.  The consensus seems to be that a bid somewhere between $10-20 is needed.  The very best "E" ranked players strongly prefer to play axis and bids are higher.  If there were no odds calculators being used and people were just going on their gut from experience or crude low luck estimates in their heads, the need for an allied bid would vanish amid that variability.  I don't mean this to say face to face players are sloppy players; its a lot harder to think and decide on the spot without a computer to guide you.  But its just  not humanly possible to tune every battle (including battles planned several rounds ahead) with that kind of precision in a face to face game.  There is too much variability for a few units here or there to matter much, but in online games every unit on the board has a job to do every turn and for the next several turns.  The only margin for error comes from dice, and under those conditions a bid is definitely needed to even it up.  The setup for second edition came out of a ton of testing in the alpha era and its very well balanced, but only when played face to face without odds calculators.

The scotland fighter + 98 sub is a strong placement for a $16 bid, but although I haven't tried it yet I am thinking the carrier thing will more strongly shift things in allied favour (and if an expert like wheatbeer is willing to try it, then I know its a good idea).

As for Russian builds, I have seen people build a bunch of infantry.  Its not as effective as things for UK in the med because it doesn't take the initiative away from the axis in the early rounds.  G1 attacks are super fun and if done correctly they can bring down the USSR in a hurry but you probably never get Cairo if you go that route.

As for piling a bunch of infantry in Yunnan, Cow pointed out long ago that would be a game breaker so it is usually agreed that you can only place 1 unit per territory or sea zone that you already occupy.   
Okay, I never thought about that. All of my games have been on the actual board game. I have never played the online version nor have I used an odds calculator. I wasn't thinking about how much that would change the game play.
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ShadowHAwk
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« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2015, 02:06:20 pm »
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Well some interesting facts.

All agree that in Europe 1940 the axis need a bid.
All agree that japan is hard to stop unless US invest heavy in the pacific.

In global nearly all players give the bid to the allies on the europe board and nobody gives the bid to the pac board.
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theROCmonster
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« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2015, 02:16:00 pm »
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Some one stole my carrier idea that I put down months ago. hehe.

BTW whoever said they would still win axis when an 11 infantry bid in Yunan is crazy. Japan would be screwed!
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variance
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« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2015, 12:24:12 pm »
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Hey ROC, it seems like a good idea!  Have you tried it out in any games? 
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theROCmonster
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« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2015, 01:36:23 pm »
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I haven't really played Global in a while. Once I realized how powerful German planes were it kind of killed my appetite for the game. :/
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Black_Elk
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« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2015, 07:47:22 pm »
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Quote
Well some interesting facts.

All agree that in Europe 1940 the axis need a bid.
All agree that japan is hard to stop unless US invest heavy in the pacific.

In global nearly all players give the bid to the allies on the europe board and nobody gives the bid to the pac board.

Has anyone tried the "China first" proposal I made? I used this solution in AA50 as a bid alternative, and I think it works well in G40 too, but haven't received much feedback from actual games other than my own group.  Maybe its because the HR forums are a wasteland of forgetfulness? haha.  
grin

The basic idea is pretty simple, everything else stays the same, but China moves first in the turn order!
So in Global that'd be...

China, Germany, Russia, Japan, USA, UK/Pac, Italy, Anzac, France (then back to China)

I'm not saying that this change does away with the need for an Allied bid entirely, but it surely makes the bid range a bit narrower, and a lower. I mean if you can bring it down from 15, back into the single digits that's a definite positive right? And China is a lot more fun to play this way. Its not like you're getting "11 infantry in Yunnan", but it does allow China to pull back and consolidate their starting forces, and build 1 round worth of additional units. It gives them their artillery in the first round, and bonus for control of the Burma road. What's more it gives them a much better chance to secure their National Objective in subsequent rounds. This adjustment in turn order, also affords the Chinese an opening attack option in they want to get balsy!

The reason I really like this approach is because it doesn't mess with the Europe side of the map (e.g it doesn't break the med.) Doesn't change the situation outside of the Chinese theater, since those units are restricted on where they can move. And most importantly, it gives Japan more to worry about. Sure, you're probably going to kick a lot more ass as Allies if you give UK an extra carrier in the Med, but if that kind of bid strikes you as overly distorting you might try this instead. It's pretty easy to implement and makes China a lot more effective as a player nation, which eases the pressure on the other Pacific nations. China has an advantage (over India) in that it can't be strategically bombed or convoy raided into non-existence. Also, you can preserve the illusion that the OOB force distribution of units on the gameboard, actually corresponds to something in reality. As if the units OOB units where chosen for some reason by the designer, to be at least vaguely historical. This change in turn order of just one Nation, allows to avoid bringing too many extra units into the board outside of the normal purchasing/placement mechanisms. Its at least as easy to explain to your opponent as a standard bid, and if you still want to bid anyway, then go for it. But the change is so simple, and it really does give Japan more to chew on, and it seems like the Pacific side of the map is the one that is grabbing all the attention lately in terms of balance.  

Also, for the history buffs..I feel like this tweak gives a slight nod to the fact that the War had been going on in China, even before all of Europe and the rest of the world was embroiled in the conflict.

"July 7, 1937 a day that lives in"... I don't know, the first turn of G40 at least? hehe. There are crazy numbers of potential players in China. The materials are produced there more often than not. Why not roll the dice and see if a China first approach will work? Anathema to all Americans, like me! But in the game's turn order I think it is kind of cool Wink

« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 08:35:09 pm by Black_Elk » Logged
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