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Author Topic: No love for bulge?  (Read 17604 times)
hkytown1
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2012, 11:23:58 pm »
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Yea, I just saw dude was selling it for $11 and had to grab it..I forgot how much the trucks cost.
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wittmann
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2012, 11:25:46 pm »
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Are the Hellcats In Anniversary?
I forget.
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CWO Marc
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2012, 08:25:42 am »
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The Hellcat showed up in the original Pacific game and in Guadalcanal, but not in Anniversary.
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wittmann
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2012, 09:06:30 am »
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Thanks Marc. Was being lazy(was in bed, as mum and dad have my 3 year old on Saturday nights). Could have opened the boxes.
Should remove all the units from Guadalcanal as have only opened the box twice in 3 years.
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Make_It_Round
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2012, 07:14:41 pm »
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I bought bulge for $11 on eBay today.  I had to do a double take but still not sure why some one would sell it so cheap.

The game sports some innovative mechanics, and while the gameplay is moderately interesting, the thing is just incredibly ugly... The board, rulebook, and reinforcement cards are depressing to look at. Everything is a flat grey, rivers are just dark grey crosshatches on light grey background. Sure, it's a 'winter' game, but it has no winter rules to give it flavor, so they just represented that fact with the blah-boring background. I'm certain that with the right artistic direction, this game could have been waaay more popular than it was. The supply rules, casualty randomization, and retreat-push mechanics have significant replayability, nevertheless, so I wouldn't be surprised if the basic engine of BotB pops its head up again in another land-based battle title in the future, e.g. Stalingrad or El Alamein. Here's hoping that something along those lines ends up getting produced (although I'm personally plumping for a reprise of the underrated and highly-engaging Guadalcanal system)!

Best,

MIR
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hkytown1
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2012, 09:57:53 pm »
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Everything has a "cheap" feeling to the game.  I complained about the goofy storage system that came with the game, now look what we get in these new games....nothing.

I like the game and my buddy borrowed it, played with his son and they enjoyed it so its going to them.
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wittmann
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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2012, 10:46:47 pm »
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I love it. Love that the Historical units are listed. Makes it more real for me.
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frimmel
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2012, 04:38:23 am »
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Sure, it's a 'winter' game, but it has no winter rules to give it flavor, so they just represented that fact with the blah-boring background. I'm certain that with the right artistic direction, this game could have been waaay more popular than it was. The supply rules, casualty randomization, and retreat-push mechanics have significant replayability, nevertheless, so I wouldn't be surprised if the basic engine of BotB pops its head up again in another land-based battle title in the future, e.g. Stalingrad or El Alamein. Here's hoping that something along those lines ends up getting produced...


While I really like the "basic engine" of BOTB and hope to see it again, I disagree that the game would have been more popular with better graphic design of the set. While I agree that the set is pretty bland one reason it is unpopular is the basic engine. It is too different than the global Axis and Allies Game. Another reason is no one 'gets it' right away from a strategy point of view (I'm rather shocked that so far in this thread there hasn't been a "How do you win with the Allies" question.)

I also point out that the system was not used in Guadalcanal. Since Guadalcanal we've gotten 7 versions of the game we've been playing since the eighties. And since there isn't really a hint that we'll be getting anything but 'traditional A&A' I'm inclined to think that the graphic design is pretty far down the list of 'problems' with the game.
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Make_It_Round
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2012, 04:55:40 am »
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Sure, it's a 'winter' game, but it has no winter rules to give it flavor, so they just represented that fact with the blah-boring background. I'm certain that with the right artistic direction, this game could have been waaay more popular than it was. The supply rules, casualty randomization, and retreat-push mechanics have significant replayability, nevertheless, so I wouldn't be surprised if the basic engine of BotB pops its head up again in another land-based battle title in the future, e.g. Stalingrad or El Alamein. Here's hoping that something along those lines ends up getting produced...


While I really like the "basic engine" of BOTB and hope to see it again, I disagree that the game would have been more popular with better graphic design of the set. While I agree that the set is pretty bland one reason it is unpopular is the basic engine. It is too different than the global Axis and Allies Game. Another reason is no one 'gets it' right away from a strategy point of view (I'm rather shocked that so far in this thread there hasn't been a "How do you win with the Allies" question.)

I also point out that the system was not used in Guadalcanal. Since Guadalcanal we've gotten 7 versions of the game we've been playing since the eighties. And since there isn't really a hint that we'll be getting anything but 'traditional A&A' I'm inclined to think that the graphic design is pretty far down the list of 'problems' with the game.


Hi Frimmel,

I'm fully aware that the Guadalcanal system was different (and in many, many ways better) than the BotB system. The GC mechanism for determining random casualties, for example, was much more elegant and intuitive than BotB's. GC's division of unit combat values for land/sea/air units, near-simultaneous player turns, and the reduction of combat to one round of rolls (allowing shared occupation of territories and sea zones with enemies) were all revolutionary features for the series, and opened up interesting design space. That's why I'd rather see GC revisited than BotB.

Given that slightly different versions of the AA50 map have been rehashed for the subsequent 7 A&A games, I agree that design has taken a back seat to consistency. But BotB's graphics were bad by any measure; its novelty didn't save it from being both unclear and visually unappealing. I can't help but think that a better, clearer map design could have really made this game more memorable and well-loved. That's my main point.

Best,

MIR
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Scarapis
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2012, 07:14:35 am »
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so essentially the only good thing in the game is the trucks ? the rest of the game can go trash itself?  I have been unable to play the game myself since no one to play which is why it will be one of the games I sell, but so far it sounds like it wasn't a good system.
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frimmel
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2012, 08:43:41 am »
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The Guadalcanal combat system is a walk back to regular A&A where every hit counts.  5 successful rolls hit five units where in BOTB that could see all the rolls landing on one unit.  It is the standard combat system with a random shot at hitting a more valuable unit. It also walked back to player determined reinforcements. It walked back to moving units into the same spaces as enemy units during combat movement. 

Better graphic design which amounts to more or less a different look to the map wouldn't push the percentage of those who played it and liked it much in either direction. It might have sold more units which might have got us more individual battle games or something on the lines of Memoir '44 with a multitude of scenarios but the system was far too radical a departure.

so essentially the only good thing in the game is the trucks ? the rest of the game can go trash itself?  I have been unable to play the game myself since no one to play which is why it will be one of the games I sell, but so far it sounds like it wasn't a good system.

No, there are many good things in the game besides trucks. It is a very interesting system. It just isn't a traditional A&A system. The game is a lot of fun but it is a radical departure from other A&A games. It is a much more traditional or hex and chit style wargame making much more of an effort to put you in the seat of the battle's actual commanders. The map could be prettier but it serves. Whether or not you will like the departures is something you'll have to decide for yourself.
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Hobbes
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2012, 10:57:02 am »
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No, there are many good things in the game besides trucks. It is a very interesting system. It just isn't a traditional A&A system. The game is a lot of fun but it is a radical departure from other A&A games. It is a much more traditional or hex and chit style wargame making much more of an effort to put you in the seat of the battle's actual commanders. The map could be prettier but it serves. Whether or not you will like the departures is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

I completely agree with frimmel regarding the combat system: it is very interesting and challenging. I'd buy another A&A game based on it (to me Market Garden would be fun since it involves airborne troops, or September 1941 drive to Moscow, or May 1942 drive to the Caucasus), since it could replicate those operational-level scenarios quite well, specially the logistics involved.

I never tried Guadalcanal though.
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Hobbes
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2012, 11:06:20 am »
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Another reason is no one 'gets it' right away from a strategy point of view (I'm rather shocked that so far in this thread there hasn't been a "How do you win with the Allies" question.)

Btw, how DO you win with the Allies (I never did so far)? Wink
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wittmann
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2012, 11:19:48 am »
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We must have played 10+ and at least 4 were Allied victories. Germans being unlucky maybe, running out of supply and hanging on until Air appears.
Not sure if there was an Allied strategy, but not loading hexes too heavily with units helps. Except the 2 or 3 that cannot be lost(ones on North map edge and Bastogne).
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hkytown1
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2012, 08:59:40 pm »
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So I got the game today and when I opened it up , low and behold there it is!!!  Copy's of frimmels strategy guides for both axis and allies!  It looks like the guy that sold it is a user on this site.   Very pleased to see the axis and allies.org logo as soon as I open the box.

I look forward to reading these tips and thanks to you, guy from North Carolina that was kind enough to include them.
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