@panther thank you! that’s how I was reading it hence why I allowed it. Just never thought of it. Use to playing other versions.
J1 IC, Manchuria or ???
-
I’m wondering what everyone else thinks about where to put a J1 IC? On the old map, i used to always buy 2x IC on J1 and put in Manchuria and Kwang, but now that Kwang and Kiang are worth 2 instead of 3, so they don’t seem like viable locations. Also the distance from Manchuria to Russia in both directions is longer, and it’s 3 turns from India with tanks. Another consideration is now India starts with an IC and will be UK’s primary staging point to help US for a KJF strategy. It feels like my focus for japan should now be India instead of straight for Moscow. Before India was just a convenient speed bump on the way to Moscow.
I’ve been thinking instead of a mainland IC in Manchuria (which seems to be too far from anything important), that i should instead put an IC on Borneo, East Indies, or both. The only problem i see with this is then it will take longer to gobble up all the 1 IPC zones in asia/eastern russia for japan. So maybe a 2 IC J1 buy, with Manchuria and Borneo?
Borneo is conveniently 2 SZ’s from both Japan and India.
Thoughts?
-
Philippines. Cannot conquer Asia if you are always looking over your shoulder waiting for US to take a VC you start with.
-
@wittmann:
Philippines. Cannot conquer Asia if you are always looking over your shoulder waiting for US to take a VC you start with.
I don’t play with VC’s.
We play until one of the 5 countries loses it’s capital, or until it’s obvious that one side will never be able to come back.
But now that i look at the map, the Philippines would also work. It’s also 2 SZ’s away from India, the only thing Borneo seems to have over Philippines is 1 more IPC value. But if i have an IC in both Manchuria and Philippines, then that shouldn’t matter since I’ll likely be dropping 3 tanks per turn in Manchuria, which will leave me with around 20 IPC to spend in Philippines. Even with subs, i can’t afford more than 3 units.
-
I’m wondering what everyone else thinks about where to put a J1 IC? On the old map, i used to always buy 2x IC on J1 and put in Manchuria and Kwang, but now that Kwang and Kiang are worth 2 instead of 3, so they don’t seem like viable locations. Also the distance from Manchuria to Russia in both directions is longer, and it’s 3 turns from India with tanks. Another consideration is now India starts with an IC and will be UK’s primary staging point to help US for a KJF strategy. It feels like my focus for japan should now be India instead of straight for Moscow. Before India was just a convenient speed bump on the way to Moscow.
I’ve been thinking instead of a mainland IC in Manchuria (which seems to be too far from anything important), that i should instead put an IC on Borneo, East Indies, or both. The only problem i see with this is then it will take longer to gobble up all the 1 IPC zones in asia/eastern russia for japan. So maybe a 2 IC J1 buy, with Manchuria and Borneo?
Borneo is conveniently 2 SZ’s from both Japan and India.
Thoughts?
Depends on your Asian strat with Japan: you can either try to take the India IC or bypass it and follow the route Kwantung/Yunnan - Szechwan - Kazakh, which is the fastest way to Russia. If you’re taking India then you’ll be probably either better off with transports and possibly an East Indies IC to speed up bringing units to Burma. But careful with a J1 buy - the US can go KJF even without the SZ37 attack and Japan will have problems defending the transports and holding off the US, so the money spent there can turn to a complete waste.
If you’re looking to press Russia through China, then Manchuria but only after you’ve used all of Japan’s production, but that takes a while because now 4 inf and 4 tank cost 36 IPC instead of 32 and it takes longer for Japan to increase its income from Asia. -
If you’re looking to press Russia through China, then Manchuria but only after you’ve used all of Japan’s production, but that takes a while because now 4 inf and 4 tank cost 36 IPC instead of 32 and it takes longer for Japan to increase its income from Asia.
Yea but using transports for tanks n such from japan takes an extra turn. You have to build, then transport, then attack with them. Instead of building them on the mainland where the turn after building units you can blitz and attack with them.
I’ve always built the IC’s on the mainland first turn to take this extra turn out of the equation and supplement those units with extra units from japan.
-
Although it takes an extra turn for production from Japan to reach the mainland, since the IPC you spend on a IC is spent on actual units so they appear 1 turn earlier. The next turn your builds on the IC appear after the action occurs for R2 whereas those units you build on R1 can actually participate in the action the following round. I agree that for the most part for Japan, build ICs when you max out your spending on the Japanese homeland IC.
-
Although it takes an extra turn for production from Japan to reach the mainland, since the IPC you spend on a IC is spent on actual units so they appear 1 turn earlier. The next turn your builds on the IC appear after the action occurs for R2 whereas those units you build on R1 can actually participate in the action the following round. I agree that for the most part for Japan, build ICs when you max out your spending on the Japanese homeland IC.
I see what your saying, but i think I’d still want an IC in either Philippines or Borneo, probably Philippines. Just so that any naval units i buy are only 2 SZ’s away from India.
-
Yea but using transports for tanks n such from japan takes an extra turn.� You have to build, then transport, then attack with them.� Instead of building them on the mainland where the turn after building units you can blitz and attack with them.�
I’ve always built the IC’s on the mainland first turn to take this extra turn out of the equation and supplement those units with extra units from japan.
With the map changes it’s takes almost the same time for a unit build on either Manchuria or Japan to reach India or Russia:
1 INF on Manchuria/Japan - 2 rounds to reach Yakut
1 TANK on Manchuria - 1 round Yakut
1 TANK on Japan - 1.5 round Yakut1 INF on Manchuria - 5 rounds to reach India (land), 3 rounds (transport, landing on Yunnan)
1 INF on Japan - 3 rounds India (1 transport fleet, landing on Yunnan), 2 rounds India (2 transport fleets, landing on Burma)
1 TANK on Manchuria - 3 rounds to reach India (land)
1 TANK on Japan - 2 rounds India1 INF on Manchuria - 3 rounds to reach Kazakh/Novo
1 INF on Japan - 3 rounds to reach Kazakh, 4 to Novo
1 TANK on Manchuria - 1,5 rounds to reach Kazakh/Novo
1 TANK on Japan - 2 rounds to reach Kazakh, 2,5 to NovoIf you’re planning of going against India then a Manchurian IC on J1 won’t help you - you’ll need transports to lift infantry from the islands and Japan, otherwise it will take longer than using transports. It can however help to fortify Asia against a KJF - depends on the posture of Japan.
If you are going against Russia, again you’ll need a lot of infantry and for that it’s more effective to first use all of Japan’s starting IC capacity. 2 transports cost 16 IPC and allow you to move 4 units, 1 IC costs 15 IPC but only place 3. Plus by picking the infantry from the islands it allows to start saving for the IC.Although it takes an extra turn for production from Japan to reach the mainland, since the IPC you spend on a IC is spent on actual units so they appear 1 turn earlier. The next turn your builds on the IC appear after the action occurs for R2 whereas those units you build on R1 can actually participate in the action the following round. I agree that for the most part for Japan, build ICs when you max out your spending on the Japanese homeland IC.
Only later, when you switch to tanks is that the Manchurian IC allows to get some gains, although those gains arent very significant.
-
There really is nothing to overlook…Hobbes is right. If I played VC, then I’d probably keep a majority of the fleet at the Phillipines to keep the dog off my lawn while using E. Indies to crush India (1 turn from India if needed). (keep aux ships to protect your transports).
You have to shuck from either E.Indies or Borneo (prefer E.Indies) to build up to take India ASAP… but if you go up the gut, just remember to account for India continually building…just don’t get caught with your pants down.
If you’re going to build an IC:
E. Indies IC for S. Route
Man IC for North or Middle -
Japan’s problem is while it is conquering the necessary territories for the Axis to win: India for starters, the US is buying fleet to retake the Philippines or Shanghai.
I always run out of Infantry for Japan and so a Manchuria IC makes sense, but how do you safeguard the Philippines?
Today I am buying one there and making 2 turns of Inf(6) and seeing how that goes. I think it has to be defence of my starting VPs first, then expansion.
If I have to buy a second IC will be on the mainland. -
There really is nothing to overlook…Hobbes is right. If I played VC, then I’d probably keep a majority of the fleet at the Phillipines to keep the dog off my lawn while using E. Indies to crush India (1 turn from India if needed). (keep aux ships to protect your transports).
You have to shuck from either E.Indies or Borneo (prefer E.Indies) to build up to take India ASAP… but if you go up the gut, just remember to account for India continually building…just don’t get caught with your pants down.
If you’re going to build an IC:
E. Indies IC for S. Route
Man IC for North or MiddleDefinitely East Indies because it allows afterwards to lift 4 inf to India using only 1 transport fleet.
-
I built IC on EI on J1 and have just lost. Took India on J2, but never built there as was retaken with all 4 Russian tanks. Then he placed 3 Uk ones. Could not take back with 2Inf and 2Art, 2 Bombards and 3 Air. Tried 3 times!(kept losing Air)lost Philippines on US4, so knew game was over.
That is why am trying IC in Philippines this time. -
@wittmann:
I built IC on EI on J1 and have just lost. Took India on J2, but never built there as was retaken with all 4 Russian tanks. Then he placed 3 Uk ones. Could not take back with 2Inf and 2Art, 2 Bombards and 3 Air. Tried 3 times!(kept losing Air)lost Philippines on US4, so knew game was over.
That is why am trying IC in Philippines this time.My advice is to build transports on J1 (you’ll need them anyways for an island IC) and wait to see what the US does first before deciding on building an IC on the islands. Even if the UK doesn’t attack SZ37, the US can still go KJF and force you to choose between attacking India to protect the transports/IC.
That’s another reason to place the IC on East Indies instead of Philippines or Borneo. East Indies can’t be threatened by amphibious landings from US transports on the Solomon Islands, whereas Borneo and Philippines can. -
@wittmann:
I built IC on EI on J1 and have just lost. Took India on J2, but never built there as was retaken with all 4 Russian tanks. Then he placed 3 Uk ones. Could not take back with 2Inf and 2Art, 2 Bombards and 3 Air. Tried 3 times!(kept losing Air)lost Philippines on US4, so knew game was over.
That is why am trying IC in Philippines this time.why did you have two bombers? That may be part of the problem in the first place…get the IC and two transports. Â You need to immediately pull the island guys off and hit Burma. Â If the Russians want to protect it with tanks, just keep building, let Germany put it up Russia’s a-hole…I’m sure they won’t help out if that happens.
-
You misread/misinterpreted my post. I agree with Hobbes 100%. I was merely asking people to respond to his wonderful post and dose of reality. And, yes, reading lots of posts on this site, it is clear many people overlook Hobbes’ posts (sadly).
I wasn’t arguing with it, I’m just doing the same…confirming his post.
-
@Mallery: BB and CR bombarding, not 2 bombers. The Nip fleet was off India shuttling to and fro from the EI IC with 2 TT and 4 ground each time.
Philippines was safe for 3 turns with just the original 2 units as I could have hit SZ with more than US would have to defend with. (My friend saw it for the death trap it was.)
MAybe if I had not been so unlucky rolling for India, the Philippines would have stayed safe. Will not know.
Never got to play that second game either as he could not stay a second day after all. -
Recommend new dice…although I would pull the art/inf off the Phillipines, but that’s just me (stop playing that VC crap).
-
I don’t see why you would WANT to be more than 2 spaces from Solomon islands. Why are the Solomon islands important? I would think you’d WANT to be 2 SZ’s away from possible US targets so you can quickly move your fleet to defend, or counterattack in a single turn. Being more than 1 turn away from important places makes me feel too uneasy. I’m heavily leaning towards Borneo, just so i can build 2 TNK and 2 INF each turn, and put them on 2 TRNS to take to mainland. On Philippines i would be 1 spot short on my transport each turn, just makes it feel “not optimized”. And then I’d be 2 SZ’s from Inida, and Japan, and all the major islands. Between Borneo and Japan, I’d have an IC within 2 SZ’s of all starting islands.
Right now I’m thinking for J1, 2 TRNS, 1 IC in Borneo, and moving half the fleet off the coast of Burma, and half off the coast of Borneo. Bringing everything i can to Burma to prepare to take India on J2.
I figure the quicker i can shut down India, the quicker Germany can take Africa, and the quicker Japan can focus on Russia and/or USA.
Recommend new dice…although I would pull the art/inf off the Phillipines, but that’s just me (stop playing that VC crap).
I agree. How is holding a VC proof your winning the war? Play until it’s obvious by all players involved that one side will eventually win, which usually happens after one of the five countries’ capital falls.
VC’s make no sense whatsoever. IPC victories made way more sense than VC’s, and look how well that idea was received.
-
Was really happy with EI, but Philippines is a VC and having to ferry 2 loads of Inf there when I am trying to win the other 2 VCs as the Axis is not a possibility.
The US is not going to sit back and watch me win the war. -
Sean, I’d put that IC in EI. EI is two zones from the Solomons, where Borneo/Phillipines is only 1. But your 2Trans/IC buy is valid. This could be ruined too if the Egypt FTR is alive and the fleet hits EI. If the UK survives with anything, you are in real trouble in the Pacific.
Suggested Topics
