Victory conditions…...

Right, that’s what I meant.

Quoting from the FAQ thread (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28562.msg1062028#msg1062028):

This exact question has been addressed on the FAQ (earlier thread), so I know the correct answer with certainty.

The Axis have to control 8 cities or more (or 6 for Pacific) CONTINUOUSLY for an entire round of play.

Say Italy takes over London for the Axis 8th city on I10.  The Axis will win on I11 if the Allies never take (or re-take) a European victory city at any time between I10 and I11.  If at any time between I10 and I11 the Axis lose a city and dip below 8, the clock has to start all over again at such time as the Axis re-claim an 8th city.  If the Axis get 9 or more cities, they can lose a city and still win on I11, as long as they never dip below 8 at any time.

That is why I prefer to incorporate the “no more than one unit per territory or seazone” rule.

I think the great variation that bids provide allow for great replayability. Who wants a game that always depends on what kind of dice Germany got G1? Pick sides, set up the board, roll a couple dice, quit. Blech.

To your point about a 12 being too much, though - only 1 game has been finished in the league this year with a bid over 11, and the axis(-15) won.

Most good players are not going to give their opponent more than 10, is what we’ve been seeing in the league results. And among what appear to be opponents of close skill level, the Allies have won at +9, +10, +8, +10, +9, and +8. And the Axis have won at -9, -15, -7, -9, and -11. Yes, that’s a small sample size, but it seems to be pretty even.

I think the best judges of when a game is fair and balanced are the players. As you can see, over half the games have been run at an 8 or 9. And 2/3 of those games have been won by the Allies. You have people that don’t want to give bids too big, people that acknowledge the Axis has an advantage, people that don’t really want to play the Allies - it’s an interesting and fluid dynamic that always seems to find its own level.

I think it’s still 8–you need Paris, the 3 Red cities, and Cario IIRC.

One UK global economy would be very cool, although I’d limit it like this:

London can spend money from both economy,
Calcutta can spend only the money from the pacific territory.

Otherwise Japan will be unplayable.

@TheDefinitiveS:

So to get the topic back to victory conditions as I have not had a chance to look at alpha setup because im apparently banned from the larry harris website is it 8 out of 11 AND 6 out of 8 VCs or is it 8 out of 11 OR 6 out of 8 VCs

or

It just occurred to me that it’s possible, if very unlikely, for a literal draw to occur, meaning a situation in which neither side has the ability to win according to the game’s rules.

If every capital in the game is taken by the opposing alliance, then no one has won but all sides have lost the ability to continue producing units. China doesn’t matter because their units are incapable of achieving Allied victory conditions due to ACME walls. If this occurs and all existing land units are destroyed or isolated due to loss of transports, then no side could possibly win because no side could conquer any new territory. Such a game would undoubtedly be a thing of legend.

Well I guess you could do it another way

Like here’s Europe 40’s Axis and Allies victory:
Berlin, Warsaw, Rome, Cairo, Paris, Leningrad, Stalingrad, and Moscow
Heres Pacific 40
Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Manila, Calcutta, Sydney

Now I guess you could take London and not take like Sydney so like taking 5 on Pacific and 9 on Europe.