How to counter J3 India Crush?

This might be considered a waste of the RAF, but J1 when he takes Java, I would think the entire Caroline fleet would be there right. Jap would have 5 units (5 def dice & soak 7 hits) plus the transport. UK has 6 units that could attack it. If you could take out most of that fleet it might be worth it (kill it all and the transport is bonus). Jap would have to retreat its surviving 2-hit ships (if any) to port, and bring down more ships from the north (delay). That southern Jap fleet always plays a big part, could be helpful later if it takes a big hit early. I don’t like just handing over India though, which you would be doing w/o RAF. Maybe you could get the NZ air force to India as replacements some how. It seems like if Jap lost that southern fleet, it would have a tougher time getting the DEI. It would also thin out the Jap fleet. The US might have a window to do some damage elsewhere. The US might even be able to sweep down to liberate India in a few rounds. If UK wins that battle the allies might have a chance. If it goes badly you might just want to start a new game.

I’ll wade in here, since it is my strategy Calvin is talking about.

The attack on the fleet at Jav has a 25% chance of success, with Japan surviving with anywhere from 1 to 4 units.

Doing this attack means I no longer really need much of an airforce to hit Ind, can can swing them to Phi 1 turn sooner.

And in those 1 in 4 games where it works, Japan still has has enough core fleet to stand in Phi on turn 4 against the US fleet that will have just taken Car - Plus I’ll still have $70 + to spend on my ‘instafleet’.

Its not enough.  This needs to be in combination with other tactics.

I’ll also point out that there is no way to get the ANZAC planes to Ind, as I will be in control of Jav.

And I will still have 5 transports after Ind falls, so I will still get the DEI on turn 4, as I usually do.

It’s not a bad idea if coupled with other moves, but on its own, it’s disaster 75% of the time.

@calvinhobbesliker:

How to counter this strat?

J1: Japan does usual J1 moves, taking Java instead of Celebes with Carolines fleet
J2: Build AB/NB in Kwangsi and position ships and planes to use them. Use planes to kill infantry in Shan, Burma, Yunnan, Szechwan; take Shan and Malaya and Yunnan
J3: Attack India with Ships in Z36, 37, 38(which were placed to prevent blockers) and planes from Kwangsi, which land in Sham or Yunnan

Hmm.

I’m heading out to Dayton this afternoon for some serious game time (well, not serious, cause we’ll be drinking, but I mean a lot of game time), I’ll have to bring this up and show Tim, see what he thinks of it.

Just in taking my first good look at it here, and it looks pretty bad for the Allies.

As it’s a bid game we are playing, Calvin, maybe having used all $20 in Phi would be the way to go?

@jim010:

I’ll also point out that there is no way to get the ANZAC planes to Ind, as I will be in control of Jav.

You can always get the at start ANZAC ftr from Queensland in to India via Singapore on ANZAC 1 & 2.

If Britian builds a CV on B1, what is the situation for blockers in SZs 38 & 37?

This force (Britis CV, CA & DD) could go south around blockers in SZ38 to hit SZ 37 in an effort to take control of that SZ and pull off the block.

I’m just thinking this problem  through out loud here, so bear with me…or humor me…or, well I don’t know what the right phrase to use here is???Anyway. :-)

If the US brings its bombers to Queensland on US1, and a ftr & DB, they could attack any blockers popping up in SZ41 that may be trying to protect the flank of a British move around SZ38 to set up a blocking position in SZ 37. The US ftr & DB could land on an empty B1 CV if it survives J2. Then the British force would have the choice to move around SZ 38 to attack SZ37, or just attack SZ38 to establish a blocking position.

If the ANZAC DD moves to SZ56 and survives J2, and SZ42 is held open (the US ftr & DB could attack this SZ in an effort to clear it without the need to use the Brit CV), it could be the the blocker for SZ 37, moving last in the turn order.

Failing that, the Allied player could see to it that the Japanese player had several beers, or whatever beverage was appropriate, right before the game. I’m talking, get the Japanese player to drink a lot of fluids.

Then, when the Japanese player starts the game and commences to execute this strategy, hopefully he/she will have to excuse themselve for a moment to use the restroom (all those fluids, see what I was getting at now?).

Then, while the Japanese player is in the restroom, take some off-white tape, and add it from the border of Burma to Shan State down to the southern border line of SZ 38, effectively dividing it in two, and creating another SZ.

Now here’s the tricky part, and you’re going to need to have this ready beforehand. But go to Office Max and get a pack of those little stickers that are all numbers. Place the numbers “64” over the SZ 39 numbers, and then place a “39” in your newly created SZ.

If all goes well, this should put India out of harms way for another turn. After that, you’re on your own. :-D

@jim010:

As it’s a bid game we are playing, Calvin, maybe having used all $20 in Phi would be the way to go?

In Philadelphia? :?

:wink:

Holy Smokes, McAuthor returns before he ever left! That crazy fool!

In Philadelphia?

He’s a well travelled man

This force (Britis CV, CA & DD) could go south around blockers in SZ38 to hit SZ 37 in an effort to take control of that SZ and pull off the block.

It needs to be tried, but I will have sizable forces in all 3 zones.  Plus, buying the AC after having wasted the UK airforce in the sz42 attack means I no longer need much of anything to take Ind now.  I would have to play it out, but I would likely just sail away and laugh.  Take Ind with the TTs from Mal would be enough.  My TTs in sz36 would then take the DEI a turn early.

Failing that, the Allied player could see to it that the Japanese player had several beers, or whatever beverage was appropriate, right before the game. I’m talking, get the Japanese player to drink a lot of fluids.

My most ‘creative’ games happen this way!

@jim010:

Plus, buying the AC after having wasted the UK airforce in the sz42 attack means I no longer need much of anything to take Ind now.

“Whatcha talkin’ bout Willis!?!”  :-D

What SZ42 attack?

What’s the deal on this move? The J3 crush deal. What’s the sitrep after J2?

What are the general forces that are holding open the SZs to keep the front door open? SZs 37 & 38, whats generally in them on J2?

It’s really hard to say, as I can really mix it up depending on how the Allies are set up after thier turn, and what loses I may have taken in my air sweeps.  Generally speaking, I can take the entirety of the navy and split it up between these 3 sea zones (if I even need to) as I see fit.

The moral of the story here is I take Ind on my third turn, and it can’t be stopped (barring extremely bad dice, or I made a mistake)

As for the sz42 attack, I think it is a mistake, as I have yet to see it do anything.

Sending the ANZAC planes to Ind would be great for me, as I can kill them too.  I would NOT send them over.

Actually, the US could put 2 x bombers, a ftr & a DB in Queensland on US1. They could Kamikazie into SZ42 at the top of the Allied second turn, followed by the British and then the ANZACers. That could do some damage.

I will have left sz42 by then.

As for the UK CV, I need to play against it, but with 5 less units in Ind, I don’t need my TTs that I brought down from Japan.  What I have down there already will be enough.  I’ll take DEI (or Sau if available) instead.

@jim010:

Actually, the US could put 2 x bombers, a ftr & a DB in Queensland on US1. They could Kamikazie into SZ42 at the top of the Allied second turn, followed by the British and then the ANZACers. That could do some damage.

I will have left sz42 by then.

As for the UK CV, I need to play against it, but with 5 less units in Ind, I don’t need my TTs that I brought down from Japan.  What I have down there already will be enough.  I’ll take DEI (or Sau if available) instead.

Nevermind, it just hit me that the SZ42 fight you’re talking about is on turn one, not turn two.

I’ll have to look at this some more. That SZ42 should only be a Japanese CV, BB & DD if I remember the set up right. British commit their planes…

I don’t think that would help the Allies.

Anyway, I’ll take this up with Tim in about three hours, in Dayton, speaking of which, I’ve gotta run. Time to get ready to hit the road!

I-70 West to Dayton!!!

If there is no counter, then in addition to US immediate 40, that start would have to be banned.

And if there is no counter to that move, then I have another issue with this game!!! :cry:

Jim (or anyone really), if you could, would you mind just generally laying out the turn 2 situation? Tim and I can take a look at it when I get out to Dayton. Also, any other important aspects of this strat, I’d really appreciate it.

Maybe Calvins opening post is enough, I don’t know. I’ll have to check when I get out to Dayton.

Depending on how things go, I will have the whole fleet in sz36 on turn 3 - plus buys in sz6.  I will have bought only 2 bases to conquer China and Ind.  The rest is already on the board.

I haven’t tried your tactic, but I like mine for its speed and certainty right up to J4.

@jim010:

I’ll wade in here, since it is my strategy Calvin is talking about.

The attack on the fleet at Jav has a 25% chance of success, with Japan surviving with anywhere from 1 to 4 units.

Doing this attack means I no longer really need much of an airforce to hit Ind, can can swing them to Phi 1 turn sooner.

Are you saying that you don’t attack the PI on J1?

@jim010:

And in those 1 in 4 games where it works, Japan still has has enough core fleet to stand in Phi on turn 4 against the US fleet that will have just taken Car - Plus I’ll still have $70 + to spend on my ‘instafleet’.

What turn do you attack the PI?

The main question we have (I’m sitting here in Dayton with Tim, and we just set the game up) In looking at the set up, the Caroline fleet normally sends its planes to the land battle in the PI. If the Caroline CV goes to Java, where do the planes come from to land on that CV?

PS- This is Kaufschtick (cough cough)

Without planes on the CV in SZ42, that makes a British attack more favorable. If the CV is loaded (read: not drunk), then how are yo taking the PI?

India Crush doesnt mean game is over. i got “crushed” and still won as the allies. Korea is the weak link for Nippon. some may disagree with that but in time you will see,young ones. 8-)

He would only have 4 ground units & one air unit available (Formosa) to attack Phil  if he wants to keep the carrier fully loaded in sz 42 off Java. He could of coarse use a tac from the Caro’s fleet to attack Phil, then replace it w/Formosa ftr for better def in sz42. None the less the odds go down on the Phil battle w/one plane, or down on the sz 42 battle if the carrier isn’t fully loaded. You can still take Phil J1, but it could cost a couple inf that your counting on for the J3 India crush.

Good point guys.

1 tav, 1tank, 1 art, 2 inf are more than enough to take Phi on the first turn.  The carrier in sz42 gets 2 fht

@calvinhobbesliker:

No, the carrier is stripped down and the planes are replaced by planes from Japan

Ftr/tacs from Japan can’t make it to sz42

@jim010:

1 tav, 1tank, 1 art, 2 inf are more than enough to take Phi on the first turn.  The carrier in sz42 gets 2 fht

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.