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Author Topic: TripleA still up and running! Many players online.  (Read 48706 times)
Subotai
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« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2009, 03:42:26 am »
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Sometimes I get carried away in discussions on what rules we like to have and not to have in A&A.

But TripleA will not be shutdown for long, not if there is enough interest in it.

I put up TripleA for downloading so it is still available, but it is sad that it cannot be hosted on sourceforge anymore, b/c it means that the development process is stopped or slowed down.

@a44bigdog, can you link to documentation or a web site for this, b/c if you are right then the lawyers of Hasbro made a mistake, which probably isn't the case, but it's interesting to check it out anyway.
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a44bigdog
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« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2009, 08:12:51 am »
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Not right of the top of my head Subotai. Such comes from discussions of Multi Man Publishing putting out the Advanced Squad Leader rulebook in PDF format a few years ago when it was out of print.
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Cmdr Jennifer
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« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2009, 08:39:10 am »
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The example of a bad player getting LRA+HB and winning against a good one is EXTREMELY improbable.  First, you have to miraculously get both technologies early enough in the game for them to be some use to you.  If you are up against a good player, that really limits your time frame.  Second, you have to know how to use them, if you are a bad player, that is very improbably.  Third, you have to be able to get them where you need them, if you are against a good player, that is improbable.  Fourth, you have to still build ground units since even LRA HBs only defend with one die at 1.  A single tank could, theoretically, take out a dozen HBs if the tank is attacking.  Fifth, you're good player has to make a number of mistakes, even if he does not go technology, in order for the bad player to win.


More likely, you have two bad players, one who went tech, one who either did not, or did and didnt get good ones.  Or you have two good players, one who got the techs but faces someone who also got them or knew how to neutralize them.


Remember, in previous incarnations of the game, a technology was a HUGE boon to the side that got it.  In this version, every technology nerfs a different technology.  It's balanced. 


Lastly, I say that it is my opinion that players who are not as good as others at the game, refuse to play with technologies because it adds depth to the game, a depth they cannot handle.  If we have player A with a 7 wins per loss ratio who loses to player B with a 1 win to 7 losses ratio because player B played player A in a tech game, then I have to think maybe the better player did win, and the worse player lost.



Hasbro will not release a game of this.  I think they only released the CD Rom before so they had ammo in court against Dogs of War.  That way they could tell the judge "hey, we have a game, they are infringing on our copywrites by giving this one away!" That's why it was never really supported and was buggier than shizzit.
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Subotai
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« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2009, 11:47:03 am »
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@ Jennifer, how delusional can you possibly be??? It's not about tech or no tech, the players who wins a series of games is better than the players who loses that series of games! You disagree with this statement??

The question is how many games between 2 players is necessary to determine the better player. Maybe 10 games, maybe 20, but probably not more than 30-40 games.

This is not a law of nature, but very close imo. The players who wins many more games than other players, regardless of what setting is used, being LL or ADS, tech or no tech, Revised or AA50, optional rules or no optional rules is better than the players who loses more games than he/she wins.

Are you seriously claiming that the weaker player will win a series of games, and not the better player? That is the conclusion you are making with your statement. I chose to define this as stupidity, and delusions, b/c if any player plays against any other player in a series of games, it's the total result that will matter, not if said players prefer tech or no tech.
The depth that tech adds to the game is randomness, aka good and bad luck, aka good and bad dice rolls, but this will even out in the long run, that is, a series of games. I have a hard time believing that you are a math teacher. Plz stop lying about aspects that is close to the laws of the nature.
I'm repeating the only possible conclusion about your statement, if you do not see this yourself, your statements claim that it is not the better player who will win in the long run, but the player(s) who prefer tech!!!!!!





« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 12:07:14 pm by Subotai » Logged
Hobbes
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« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2009, 11:53:50 am »
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this thread is sure having a tendency to go off topic...
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Cmdr Jennifer
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« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2009, 01:29:57 pm »
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@ Jennifer, how delusional can you possibly be??? It's not about tech or no tech, the players who wins a series of games is better than the players who loses that series of games! You disagree with this statement??


That's been my point.  If you cannot win in the average game with technology, then I feel you are the inferior player.  To me, blaming a game loss on your opponent(s) getting technology is as silly as blaming it on dice.  You are either the better player(s) or not!

Coupled with that is that many players who refuse to play with technology also seem to lose a lot more often when technology is used.  To me, that means they are probably the lesser of the two players, skill wise.  Obviously, since they tend to lose more games when playing with technology, that is why they refuse to play with technology.  Which leads me to the indicator that if a player refuses to play a game with technology available, they are probably - in my opinion - the lesser player. (These are also the types of players who play a very specific game, which is to mean, they expect their opponent to act in a certain manner and plan to use a specific over all strategy which they will select from their list of strategies based on how their opponent is playing.  This is why I creamed NCSCSwitch in our KJF game together, he just could not handle a Russia that was overly aggressive, a suicidal England and an America bombing the crud out of the Japanese navy.  It was not in his play style, he had no strategy to pull out of his bag to deal with it, as such, he had to think and thus, ended up losing.)
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Subotai
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« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2009, 02:25:51 pm »
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It is a matter of fact that using tech means more randomness, but this will not matter in the long run. Agree or disagree?

Tech and/or ADS/LL and every other variant does not have a greater influence on players skills level, it's the total statistics that matter. To put it very simple, I'm not a better or lesser player than you b/c I prefer no tech, I'm a better or lesser player than you if I win or lose more games against you, for a certain number of games. This has nothing to do with tech or no tech, b/c it's the total number of wins and losses which determines who is the better player. How can I explain this any simpler? You are obsessed with tech or no tech, but this aspect has no relevance at all. All that matters is that in whatever setting is used, for a certain number of games, the better player is the one who wins more than he/she loses. Tech or no tech is absolutely irrelevant in deciding the players skills. And this is not about my or your opininon, it's as simple as the best player will win in the long run.
Tech or no tech is irrelevant for playing skills, as is LL or ADS, it's the number of wins and losses which determines the best players regardless of if the games are with tech or no tech.

And it is not about how I feel or how you feel, it's about empirical data. I don't like tech, and you prefer tech, but this matter is not about feelings, it's about facts. The better player will win regardless of tech or no tech. And I can assure you, that the best A&A players who prefer LL and no tech, are also very good in ADS and tech, but I doubt that they will waste their time by showing you this simple fact.



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bugoo
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« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2009, 02:35:20 pm »
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Can we please talk about Hasbro shutting down tripleA instead of debating tech it yet ANOTHER thread.
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Subotai
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« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2009, 02:46:01 pm »
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@bugoo, I totally agree, now, how about a $5 unit bid for allies, AA50 41 +NO, LL, no tech game, I'm axis  evil  smiley

Sometimes I have a hard time controlling my feelings...   embarassed


But I don't think TripleA will be shut down, not even with the A&A maps included, it's just a pity that the development process has been halted. I really like to see a stable 1.0.4. with AA50.

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« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2009, 12:28:02 am »
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Is there a game lobby for trippla anywhere? IRC etc?
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Veqryn
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« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2009, 05:40:54 pm »
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Whats with the apathy here?
I thought you guys liked Axis and Allies.  Who cares if like TripleA or not, send Hasbro an email before they crush more of our community!
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Cmdr Jennifer
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« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2009, 05:58:50 pm »
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As I said, personal opinion Subo.  Obviously, no generalization will cover the minutia of numerous players and playing styles. However, it does cover my EXPERIENCE with players.  MOST players I have played that refuse to play tech, when they finally DO play a tech game, usually lose.  Not because I get a killer tech, but because their skill is lacking.  They need a static game where the rules do not change to win.  It's like Hasbro.  They need the competition killed to create a static playing field where the rules do not change so they can win.

Doesn't make the player who refuses to play with tech a bad person anymore than Hasbro refusing to allow competition being a bad company.  It just is.  Neither seem to be able to compete on an open and free playing field, one that allows competition to make them build a better product or one that forces the player to open his or her mind to knew ideas and new strategies.
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Woodstock
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« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2009, 10:25:49 pm »
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Thanks for the email links Veqryn, sent emails off to all those bastards at WoTC and Hasbro.  The amount of apathy on these forums is astonishing; Hasbro threatens a DMCA takedown to a freely hosted fanservice of one of their lesser sold products, and the majority of people just flame it into oblivion and even suggest that the program sucked anyway and deserved to be shut down...  When Hasbro comes after your AABattlemap and Mapview programs next, don't expect much support from me... cry

Let's get everyone on the same page here, dammit!  Refuse to buy any Hasbro products and let them know that what they are doing is infuriating their fan base by clamping down on fan-made freeware!  If they had made a superior product that was worthy of  attention that'd be one thing, but threatening copyright infringement on a freeware game that has a total of 300 users worldwide is ridiculous.  Most of you out there apparently don't even like TripleA, even though somehow it was popular enough to have been shut down.

Definitely NOT buying AA1942 after Hasbro has completely eliminated any chance of me having fun with the Axis and Allies franchise anymore.  People in town don't play the boardgame, they can't stay around for 12 hours to play one game, plus you can't save those games anyway to pick up later.  TripleA was the easiest way for me to find matches in their online lobby and ran generally flawlessly for me.  THEY HAD A WORKING VERSION OF AA50 THAT I WANTED TO USE FOR THE TECH TOURNEY.  So F*** you, Hasbro, never buying one of your products again.

Hopefully we'll get somewhere with this, Veqryn, as we apparently are the only ones who give a rats a**.  I just can't understand the total lack of support from the Axis and Allies Community, as they apparently will use ANY thread to pointlessly debate about Technology rules while Hasbro gleefully pulls the rug out from under them.

Quoted for support. +1 karma there.
I am stunned to see that some people keep on going off-topic, pushing me their opinion down my throat, as if it were the truth.
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Subotai
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« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2009, 11:57:01 pm »
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@ Jennifer, we should make another thread for our discussion, but there is no such thing as a static game in A&A, b/c every single game is different, regardless of what rules are being used.

As for the campaign against TripleA, this has been slowing down the development of TripleA, but TripleA is not down yet, and probalby will not be shut down in the future either.


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Romulus
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« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2009, 05:51:31 am »
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I believe that the only important thing proposed in this thread is the idea of sending an email to Hasbro explaining why TripleA is a benefit for them!

The discussione about tech and other belongs to other threads. (They are interesting but here are not the place to discuss those ideas)
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