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Author Topic: German Factory in Ukraine Turn 1  (Read 3408 times)
Romulus
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2008, 05:03:48 am »
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Yes Axis_roll, I have not expressed correctly the concept! Sorry!
Thanks for your obervation.

I intend that for 4th turn Japan is able to start the assalt towards Moscow. I do not mean that Japan is near the Moscow territory. Usually Japan is still 2 (or 3) territories away from Moscow territory in the fourth turn.
But in the fourth turn the Japanese should be able to increase the pressure from the east and IMHO a good move for Germany is to increase also pressure from the west. At same time something should be tempted to slow the  UK/USA from giving support to Russia.

My overall idea is to not going head on against Russia in the first turns but wait for Japanese support. I think that is better to attack from both sides the Russia. Germany, in some cases, may conquer Moscow alone, but generally an help from Japanese make the operation more quick.

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Magister
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2008, 02:19:03 am »
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Even if Germany holds Ukraine early, better build 5 more inf instead in Germany/Italy and march them east. 2 turns later, they arrive (compared to 6 inf Ukraine could have built by then).
It's more flexible so, because the 3 inf in Germany and 3 in EEU or Balkans are adding to the defense of their 'pipeline' and can reverse at any time if needed.

My preferred 1G build is 12inf 1arty = 40 IPC. Tanks are good to add later or replace the slow flow, creating a 'cumulative charge' in which 4 turns of production arrive over 2 turns to overwhelm Ukr/Caucasus/Moscow.
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Bunnies P Wrath
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2008, 08:10:07 am »
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You do NOT want to let the sz13 BB live. Ever.

Orly?

Evar?

Nevar?

Sarah Michelle Gellar?

I would say that the UK battleship at Gibraltar and Anglo-Egypt are Germany's two most crucial battles.  But that's only if Germany doesn't have a decent chance on securing London.  True, that's almost never.  But that's ALMOST never.  Not "never ever".
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Bunnies P Wrath
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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2008, 08:26:59 am »
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Has anyone ever built a factory in the Ukraine on Germany Turn 1? The problem with the Eastern front has always been logistics. Why not a factory right next to the caucus? Please let me know what you think. I know this takes a lot of much needed troops away, but is it worth it?

You get all kindsa weird strats, and a lot of German strats get cooked up.  You oughta join the Caspian Sub Yahoo group.  Building a factory in the Ukraine is what I think they refer to as the Donut shop.  Or the Hot Dog Stand.  Or something like that.

I am of the opinion that you never want to build an industrial complex with Germany, barring extremely unusual circumstances.  If you build an industrial complex, that's 15 IPC that you didn't spend on infantry or tanks, and you probably want an AA gun there, which takes time to move up.  You then have an additional point that you need to defend.

If the Allies are landing in Western Europe or containing Germany in some other fashion, then you need units in the west anyways, in which case you'll want tanks at Eastern Europe to defend Eastern Europe and threaten any Allied landing in Western Europe.  15 IPC is three less tanks you can use.

If the Allies aren't landing at Western Europe or messing with Germany (i.e. killing Japan), then you have to crack Caucasus before Japan feels the pain, probably using S. Europe's fleet starting G3-4 to support.  Once you crack the Caucasus, you have a 4 unit production center on Moscow's doorstep.  So why not build an industrial complex then?  Because even then, you have a S. Europe battleship and transport; 16 IPC buys two more S. Europe transports that can drop right into any number of territories (Ukraine, Caucasus, Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan), giving the Germans far more flexibility, and two fodder transports can help against light Allied air attacks on the Med fleet.

So what happens if the Allies didn't land at Western Europe or land troops at Norway/Karelia, and built a big fat load of fighters, which can blow up the Med fleet?  Well, then, just build a hell of a lot of tanks with Germany, and bust Moscow in the face; Moscow can put up a spirited defense, but with Japs in the East and Germans from the west, you start seeing Axis tanks traded for Allied fighters, which just isn't a good deal for the Allies.
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Bunnies P Wrath
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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2008, 08:34:03 am »
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My current strategy thanks to your input (everyone) is to build about 10 INF and 2 ARM first turn.

My attacks will Be Karelia from Norway and an amphibious assault from W. Europe.

Take out the Med BB with fighters and SZ 8 Sub

Take out the Med DD and storm Egypt.

This leaves me with kind of a wasp's nest of fighters and bomber in the med that could destroy any UK or US landing in Algeria.

Usually you park 1 fighter 1 bomber at Libya (they can't go anywhere else after hitting Anglo-Egypt and/or the UK destroyer), and park others at W. Europe.  If you park at W. Europe, you can trade some European territories and land back at W. Europe, or you can start the W. Europe/E. Europe (or whatever the second territory is) fighter split.  You do the fighter split so you can trade territories with Russia; if the Allied navy gets close, half the fighters can hit, if the Allied navy gets closer, all the fighters can hit.  You do not park air in Africa usually.

My fear remains that the USSR can mount a serious counter offensive on the Eastern Front.

Oh noes, they have people.  with guns!  imma get in my tank and drive away!  Well of course Russia's gonna try to mess with you.  But there isn't a whole lot you can do about that anyways.  What would you do to try to shut the USSR down on G1?  You can't do it.  So just do what you CAN do.

On turn 1 is it wise to move your baltic fleet north to block the route to archangel?

Move the Baltic fleet out as a group, and it gets totaallly fried by Allied air/navy.  Doesn't help that the UK can drop at least a transport in as fodder (they don't HAVE to send the UK battleship, and if they don't, you can't blow the battleship next turn with German air).  Just leave the Baltic fleet where it's at.  Let the UK blow it up.  If the UK uses air on it, fine, the UK loses fighters, so what if you traded 36 IPC of navy for 10-20 of fighters; you weren't gonna do a lot with most of those ships anyways.  I mean yeah, some ppl go for a German Baltic carrier on G1, but I'm not really a supporter of that.
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Francis Marion
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2008, 12:53:36 pm »
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Thanks for the advice bunnies. I agree with  you about focusing on what you CAN do. My plan was to leave the fighters just as you described. The wasp nest analogy was for any turn 2 counter attack against an allied landing in algeria. Great advice though. Thanks.
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cyan
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2008, 08:16:19 pm »
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Has anyone ever built a factory in the Ukraine on Germany Turn 1? The problem with the Eastern front has always been logistics. Why not a factory right next to the caucus? Please let me know what you think. I know this takes a lot of much needed troops away, but is it worth it?

You get all kindsa weird strats, and a lot of German strats get cooked up.  You oughta join the Caspian Sub Yahoo group.  Building a factory in the Ukraine is what I think they refer to as the Donut shop.  Or the Hot Dog Stand.  Or something like that.

I am of the opinion that you never want to build an industrial complex with Germany, barring extremely unusual circumstances.  If you build an industrial complex, that's 15 IPC that you didn't spend on infantry or tanks, and you probably want an AA gun there, which takes time to move up.  You then have an additional point that you need to defend.

If the Allies are landing in Western Europe or containing Germany in some other fashion, then you need units in the west anyways, in which case you'll want tanks at Eastern Europe to defend Eastern Europe and threaten any Allied landing in Western Europe.  15 IPC is three less tanks you can use.

If the Allies aren't landing at Western Europe or messing with Germany (i.e. killing Japan), then you have to crack Caucasus before Japan feels the pain, probably using S. Europe's fleet starting G3-4 to support.  Once you crack the Caucasus, you have a 4 unit production center on Moscow's doorstep.  So why not build an industrial complex then?  Because even then, you have a S. Europe battleship and transport; 16 IPC buys two more S. Europe transports that can drop right into any number of territories (Ukraine, Caucasus, Anglo-Egypt, Trans-Jordan), giving the Germans far more flexibility, and two fodder transports can help against light Allied air attacks on the Med fleet.

So what happens if the Allies didn't land at Western Europe or land troops at Norway/Karelia, and built a big fat load of fighters, which can blow up the Med fleet?  Well, then, just build a hell of a lot of tanks with Germany, and bust Moscow in the face; Moscow can put up a spirited defense, but with Japs in the East and Germans from the west, you start seeing Axis tanks traded for Allied fighters, which just isn't a good deal for the Allies.
agreed if Germany wants control of the channel is the only circumstance i can think of them building an IC. but why they would do that is good question. or if they sneak into Brazil but that rarely happens. ( when i say rarely I mean almost never) even if you owned egypt for good you wouldn't want it there. you could just use your med fleet and build one more trn if it is really necessary.
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Francis Marion
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2008, 03:19:34 pm »
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I was victorious. The UK's navy was destroyed very early in the game, and my Japanese counterpart did very well. Moscow was taken!!!!
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