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Axis & Allies => Software => Topic started by: Veqryn on July 14, 2009, 05:40:03 pm



Title: TripleA still up and running! Many players online.
Post by: Veqryn on July 14, 2009, 05:40:03 pm
Edit:
TripleA is doing just fine.  We are still running, and have usually 30-100 people online during americas timezone and europe timezone, and many more people playing by email, network games, or single player hotseat or vs ai.  
Go here to download it or see the website: http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki/







Old post:

Hasbro just shut down TripleA,
you can see it here:
http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki/Forum#nabble-td3251158%7Ca3251158 (http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki/Forum#nabble-td3251158%7Ca3251158)

What is next? Will they shut down ABattleMap too?  After, it has A&A maps on it.

What a load of *******, don't they know that everyone who plays TripleA has AT LEAST one of their A&A board games sitting at home?  Hell, I'd be willing to best the average number is higher than 2.  Hasbro obviously has no clue what their customer and gamer community looks like.  If anything, TripleA is a source of Free Advertising for their franchise.  
(As a some-time economist I have read many articles about P2P's and copyright violations, etc, do to companies bottom line.  Take thinks like Napster and Limewire for example.  Common sense says that the companies and bands are losing money because of them, but all of the studies done on it have shown that something else: it is free advertising, and results in more sales of lesser known bands.  The bottom line with those things is that it lowers the revenue from Big-Name Brands like the Beatles or 50Cent, which people know of already and would buy normally, and it increases the revenue from not as well known bands and artists, who normally would get next to zero advertising without it.  In most cases the two trade off or are close to even.  These companies just have their heads up their asses and are unable to adjust to a changing marketplace.)

So, I ask, who do we need to petition and email to let TripleA be downloaded and updated and distributed, etc.?
I am guessing Larry Harris can't help directly, but I'm sure he might be well placed to whisper into Hasbro's ear.  IL, who do we need to talk to, who do we need to email, write letters, sign petitions, etc, for?  What method will be the most effective?

Hell, without this forum and without TripleA, I would not be at all as excited about Axis and Allies as I am today.  Flaws and all, I love A&A, and Hasbro seems to think they can p�ss me off and still get my money later.


EDIT:

PLEASE EVERYONE,
help your fellow A&A players, even if you don't use TripleA yourself, please express solidarity with your forum members and SEND AN EMAIL TO HASBRO

May I suggest people help petition please?

I have sent an email to the following emails:
corporateinfo@wizards.com
Hasbrogamespr@hasbro.com
hasbro_investor_relations@hasbro.com

Here is what my email said, if you send your own you do not have to be as long, just try to be nice:

Dear Hasbro,
As a good customer and fan of your products, I would like to show you some of the good reasons that you should allow TripleA to continue existing, or alternatively, that you should co-opt the developers to make TripleA for you.
TripleA is free advertising.
As a freely distributed program, developed at no cost to you, TripleA is a form of advertising for your Axis and Allies board game products.  TripleA increases the desire of its users to own the various board games in real life, and also increases awareness of your different board game products.  Anyone who plays such games online will also want a copy to play against their friends and family in-person.
TripleA does not compete with your board games.
Almost all users of TripleA already own more than 1 of the board game products that are simulated in the program.  It takes a very hardcore player to be willing to play such games online.
TripleA supports your customer community, eliminating TripleA will alienate your customers.
Many of the users of TripleA are among your best board game customers and fans.  Most of them already own the products that they are playing with online.  By shutting down their attempts to reach out and form communities online, meet other players, share strategies, and play games online, you will be hurting or alienating your best customers.
TripleA is an open source and publicly developed application, which allows for continuous development and support at no cost to Hasbro or its subsidiaries.  Attempts to sell such narrow applications have in the past been complete failures, resulting in a loss of equity and time for the company involved.  After their marketplace failure, these pieces of software were abandoned and no longer supported, despite their bugs, resulting in a bad image for the companies involved.  Instead of viewing TripleA as a threat, though it positively impacts your bottom line, you could instead co-opt the developers of it.  Since it is doubtful too many people would be willing to pay for software to simulate the game they already own at home, a suggested path would be to continue releasing it for free, but with advertising banners to provide some revenue as well as to increase awareness of other Hasbro products.  Opensource software saves significant money by having the customers and users do the development, support, and bug fixing for you for free.  With the time and cost it would take to build a new version from scratch, significant money could be saved by employing or even just tacitly supporting the developers of TripleA, who have already experienced all the major issues and bugs surrounding building such an online application.

In short, TripleA increases your revenue through its free advertisement of your products, as well as positively affecting your public image and providing support for an important and vital portion of your customer community.  TripleA should be allowed to continue being distributed, and/or the development of it should be co-opted by Hasbro.
Thank you for your time,
XXX


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: SgtBlitz on July 14, 2009, 07:19:48 pm
WHAT. THE. F*CK.  Can we still play networked games on this thing with the latest client?  Cause I don't think they can shut down that.

Seriously?  HASBRO???  They made ONE super sh*tty AA CD-ROM game like 10 years ago and are shutting down ALL of TripleA because of it?  I cry bullsh*t.  AA50 is Avalon Games anyway, is the unstable AA50 client gonna be able to work???

There's like maybe 50 people online on TripleA at any given time, anyways!  Holy sh*t!  Like these people would be playing a game at home!  The ONLY way you're going to be playing (and finishing!) a 12 hour Axis and Allies game is ONLINE!  

Where's a link to a petition or something?  This is ridiculous, as there are MANY of the games available on the TripleA client that Hasbro has NO rights too!  I could see them trying to get Classic or Revised taken out but the whole client is just FOOLISH.

Hell, how am I gonna participate in the ladder now, wanted to play matches over TripleA...

Edit:  BTW, may I add I have CLASSIC, REVISED, AND AA50 SITTING IN MY CLOSET AT HOME.  GATHERING DUST.  TRIPLEA WAS THE EASIEST WAY TO FIND OPPONENTS AND GAMES.  THANKS A LOT HASBRO.  NEVER BUYING ONE OF YOUR PRODUCTS AGAIN.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 14, 2009, 09:32:43 pm
Quote
The infringing material is an unauthorized downloadable
     version of the AXIS & ALLIESŪ game called “TripleA” that its
     developer refers to as “an axis and allies clone.”  The TripleA
     maps, unit types and game rules are exact replicas of the AXIS &
     ALLIESŪ game. The infringing material is located at:

I think you cant have AA name on any of the maps or files or language. Perhaps this notice is presented because WOTC is finally going to make a new software version of the game and wanted to first remove competing brands.

I always refused to play Trip A because to me it sucked. It was too ugly.  But i guess when nothing else exists for online play and the LL people refuse to play the game table version because you cant do LL. Now i guess the LL will finally dry up. But it is a loss to many


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: dondoolee on July 14, 2009, 11:22:50 pm
Got to love IP.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 15, 2009, 02:48:49 am

In our Italian forum we use only TripleA for PBEM and online play. Every member of the forum has more than one copy of the game. Moreover... people that can not play A&A "live" with friends come to the forum for playing with TripleA and they have their own copy of A&A. And finally we have also people that, thanks to the forum and TripleA have discovered A&A and bought it. I have made the translation in Italian language of the Anniversary Rulebook for using by the forum members and the high number of download it is an indication that initiative like the forum and like TripleA are "free advertisement" for A&A and that is a gain for Hasbro! Heck, Hasbro should pay TripleA developers and the forums (like this one also) that are able to disseminate A&A knowledge increasing the selling of the game! All the active members of the forum own at least Classic and Revised and, if lucky, they have also Anniversary.

Hasbro should compare this "free advertisement" with their marketing policy... there are people that have not their copy of Anniversary because there are no more copy to buy!!! They made a number of game boxes less than the number of cgame boxes they could have sold. Way? Maybe becasue they are not able to evaluate the positive effort of "free advertisement" provided by initiative like TripleA and forums?
So, Hasbro sold less game boxes than the real market demand and are worried about losing in selling?!?!? Who are the market experts at Hasbro? Duffy Duck and Donald Duck? How they "made the numbers" of the game box to manifacture?

IL there is also an important advantage with TripleA. In our forum we use TripleA to play multiplayer A&A with PBEM, each nation is played by a forum user and we enjoy the needs for diplomacy and mediation between players, as in the original spirit of the game as was conceived by Larry Harris. TripleA is far more easy to use than AbattleMap and other similar programs, without it a lot of our entertaining games will be not possible because there are people that have difficult in usign map managers programs.

I hope that my post is clear enough, I have tried to explain my ideas, in english and maybe they are more complex than my english writing abilities.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Battling Maxo on July 15, 2009, 03:39:46 am


I hope that my post is clear enough, I have tried to explain my ideas, in english and maybe they are more complex than my english writing abilities.




Your english e benissimo.  Mi dispiace about triple A


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 15, 2009, 07:34:49 am


I hope that my post is clear enough, I have tried to explain my ideas, in english and maybe they are more complex than my english writing abilities.




Your english e benissimo.  Mi dispiace about triple A

Thank you! :)   (+1 for you!)


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 15, 2009, 07:59:17 am
People use whatever platform they prefer, be it the boardgame and f2f gaming, or GTO or TripleA. Many players think TripleA is better than other alternatives, so they use it.
If Wotc/Hasbro makes a better, easier product than TripleA, I would use it instead of TripleA, as would all the other players also.
I started a thread in the software forum, I didn't see that the discussions started here already.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=14901.0


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: SgtBlitz on July 15, 2009, 08:12:44 am
BTW everyone: Hasbro = Avalon Hill = Wizards of the Coast.  Boycott their products.  One gigantic gaming company of FAIL.  TripleA probably SOLD them more copies of the board game than any of the sh*tty clients they came up with, their AA CD-ROM game was a REAL p.o.s., it crashed after round 5 every time.  My guess is they're planning on releasing a new computer game (that's GUARANTEED to be a horrible failure, their game designers won't have the YEARS of experience TripleA devs have had in foreseeing conflicts/problems and will take years of patching to catch up) and that they're nipping all the competition (however free and good for them it might be) in the bud.  Why they couldn't have co-opted/commended the devs for making their game for them already is anyone's guess.

Man, Avalon Hill SOLD OUT of copies of AA50 like 1 year ago, they CAN'T be hurting for money with the AA franchise.  Just a sheer money grab, plain and simple.  Never buying any of their products again.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 15, 2009, 08:53:30 am
Look, they shut down Dogs of War and that's about as completely different a name as you can possibly imagine!  I still have a copy, of course, and the AI is WAY better than in TripleA (which sucks, IMHO) and the graphics were way better too, but that's that.

I notice they went after TRIPLEA and not Battlemap. :P  I think the difference is that Battlemap is just a map with icons and the icons don't really look like the ones you get with the boardgame.  On top of it, battlemap doesn't have rules similar to Axis and Allies because it does not have an AI!


If you want my opinion, and you're getting it no matter what, I kind of expected TripleA to be shut down because they shut down Dogs of War for the same reason.


PS: I would enjoy an "official" AA game to be released that had all variants of the game, an AI that didn't use the tactics of a 5 year old, and a stable platform to run on.  Pretty would be okay, but function > aesthetics as I am sure most of you would agree.  Heck, make the download free and charge us $1/mo. to play it online!


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Battling Maxo on July 15, 2009, 09:34:39 am


I hope that my post is clear enough, I have tried to explain my ideas, in english and maybe they are more complex than my english writing abilities.




Your english e benissimo.  Mi dispiace about triple A

Thank you! :)   (+1 for you!)

mille grazie


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: bugoo on July 15, 2009, 11:00:53 am
The crazy thing is even when i play AA 'live' we use tripleA most of the time, as its a hell of alot faster, or AbattleMap displayed on me TV =), and I do own several AA games.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Corbeau Blanc on July 15, 2009, 11:37:45 am
Completely stupid, I own almost all A&A version except aniversary which is sold out...

Triple A was great since we could play from far away against other folks in different countries!!!

Damn it, if I want to play the board game with friends I will do so with the boards but theses games happens once a year!

Finding opponents is hard, triple A was giving us this!

I'm totally angry  :x


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 15, 2009, 12:37:09 pm
Some important aspects here, Hasbro won't be able to shut down TripleA completely, not if there is enough interest in it. What happens now is that the developing progress is stopped, but TripleA will live on. And this move will not help Hasbro as much as making a software version that most players prefer instead of TripleA, b/c some players prefer TripleA, some prefer Abattlemap, and some choose GTO. This move is just plain stupid.

If there is enough interest then TripleA will keep developing in another place than sourceforge.

Hasbro chose TripleA probably b/c TripleA is the toughest competitor atm.

The point is not that we love TripleA, b/c we don't!, but many players think TripleA is the best A&A software platform, or a lesser evil until someone else creates something better.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Veqryn on July 15, 2009, 01:23:44 pm
Look, they shut down Dogs of War and that's about as completely different a name as you can possibly imagine!  I still have a copy, of course, and the AI is WAY better than in TripleA (which sucks, IMHO) and the graphics were way better too, but that's that.

I notice they went after TRIPLEA and not Battlemap. :P  I think the difference is that Battlemap is just a map with icons and the icons don't really look like the ones you get with the boardgame.  On top of it, battlemap doesn't have rules similar to Axis and Allies because it does not have an AI!


If you want my opinion, and you're getting it no matter what, I kind of expected TripleA to be shut down because they shut down Dogs of War for the same reason.


PS: I would enjoy an "official" AA game to be released that had all variants of the game, an AI that didn't use the tactics of a 5 year old, and a stable platform to run on.  Pretty would be okay, but function > aesthetics as I am sure most of you would agree.  Heck, make the download free and charge us $1/mo. to play it online!

One other advantage of TripleA was the ability to make your own maps and mods.  I haven't done any yet, but I am learning Java right now with the intent to try one. 

Second, can you either post or pm me a link to dogs of war? it sounds interesting and I want to see it


Oh, and the reason I like tripleA, is because the map comes setup for me, units are already placed, ipcs are counted for me, most of the rules are coded so that I don't have to mess around with clicking a million times in battlemap


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Veqryn on July 15, 2009, 02:21:58 pm
May I suggest people help petition please?

I have sent an email to the following emails:
corporateinfo@wizards.com
Hasbrogamespr@hasbro.com
hasbro_investor_relations@hasbro.com

And it said:


Dear Hasbro,
As a good customer and fan of your products, I would like to show you some of the good reasons that you should allow TripleA to continue existing, or alternatively, that you should co-opt the developers to make TripleA for you.
TripleA is free advertising.
As a freely distributed program, developed at no cost to you, TripleA is a form of advertising for your Axis and Allies board game products.  TripleA increases the desire of its users to own the various board games in real life, and also increases awareness of your different board game products.  Anyone who plays such games online will also want a copy to play against their friends and family in-person. 
TripleA does not compete with your board games. 
Almost all users of TripleA already own more than 1 of the board game products that are simulated in the program.  It takes a very hardcore player to be willing to play such games online.
TripleA supports your customer community, eliminating TripleA will alienate your customers.
Many of the users of TripleA are among your best board game customers and fans.  Most of them already own the products that they are playing with online.  By shutting down their attempts to reach out and form communities online, meet other players, share strategies, and play games online, you will be hurting or alienating your best customers. 
TripleA is an open source and publicly developed application, which allows for continuous development and support at no cost to Hasbro or its subsidiaries.  Attempts to sell such narrow applications have in the past been complete failures, resulting in a loss of equity and time for the company involved.  After their marketplace failure, these pieces of software were abandoned and no longer supported, despite their bugs, resulting in a bad image for the companies involved.  Instead of viewing TripleA as a threat, though it positively impacts your bottom line, you could instead co-opt the developers of it.  Since it is doubtful too many people would be willing to pay for software to simulate the game they already own at home, a suggested path would be to continue releasing it for free, but with advertising banners to provide some revenue as well as to increase awareness of other Hasbro products.  Opensource software saves significant money by having the customers and users do the development, support, and bug fixing for you for free.  With the time and cost it would take to build a new version from scratch, significant money could be saved by employing or even just tacitly supporting the developers of TripleA, who have already experienced all the major issues and bugs surrounding building such an online application.

In short, TripleA increases your revenue through its free advertisement of your products, as well as positively affecting your public image and providing support for an important and vital portion of your customer community.  TripleA should be allowed to continue being distributed, and/or the development of it should be co-opted by Hasbro.
Thank you for your time,
XXX


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 15, 2009, 04:12:31 pm
@ IL, the LL issue in A&A is not a different concept/principle than a boring tv-show, if you don't like it don't watch it.
Same as tech, if you don't like it don't use it.
Tech is optional in AA50, but not in Revised, but regardless of optional or mandatory rules, many players hate tech, b/c it's completely broken, many of us like Revised and AA50 very much, as long as it is w/o tech.

And LL can also be seen the same way we perceive porn, we may not like it, at least many people dislike porn, but it's not gonna go away. It's as simple as don't watch it if you don't like it.

It's 99% sure that when GTO get enough players that are very competitive who wants to play primary 1vs1, many of the players will demand a LL option. And there are many TripleA players who prefer regular dice, even if LL players are the majority.
Just for the record, I play both ADS and LL, even if I prefer LL.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: dondoolee on July 15, 2009, 11:01:05 pm
By the way, is it just me, or on TripleA do the Italian AA's seem hit on an extrodinarily high ratio when the Allies are SBRing Italy?


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 16, 2009, 12:24:48 am
By the way, is it just me, or on TripleA do the Italian AA's seem hit on an extrodinarily high ratio when the Allies are SBRing Italy?

This is an historical issue... Italian A&A should hit only when scoring a 0...  :-D

I have a different experience in our games with TripleA and Anniversary: SBR bombing is very useful, the A&A shoot down really few bombers. However we play usually PBEM using the external dice roller not the TripleA built in dice roller.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Nix on July 16, 2009, 03:38:45 am
This is bu*****t...


Since itīs impossiable for me to buy Axis and allies aniverary edition, i now canīt play that game at all.. :(


So the logic is, donīt make new copies, disable the online option, present no new "solution/products"  wtf?


edit: trying to improve spelling a little.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 16, 2009, 06:21:03 am
Look, they shut down Dogs of War and that's about as completely different a name as you can possibly imagine!  I still have a copy, of course, and the AI is WAY better than in TripleA (which sucks, IMHO) and the graphics were way better too, but that's that.

I notice they went after TRIPLEA and not Battlemap. :P  I think the difference is that Battlemap is just a map with icons and the icons don't really look like the ones you get with the boardgame.  On top of it, battlemap doesn't have rules similar to Axis and Allies because it does not have an AI!


If you want my opinion, and you're getting it no matter what, I kind of expected TripleA to be shut down because they shut down Dogs of War for the same reason.


PS: I would enjoy an "official" AA game to be released that had all variants of the game, an AI that didn't use the tactics of a 5 year old, and a stable platform to run on.  Pretty would be okay, but function > aesthetics as I am sure most of you would agree.  Heck, make the download free and charge us $1/mo. to play it online!

One other advantage of TripleA was the ability to make your own maps and mods.  I haven't done any yet, but I am learning Java right now with the intent to try one. 

You can do the same in ABattlemap and Mapview, that's how we keep updating for new games, and even invent new games.  I wager it is far easier to do, at least for Battlemap, than it is in TripleA since you only have to create a new BMP file for a map and play around with the tiles to create different pieces!

Second, can you either post or pm me a link to dogs of war? it sounds interesting and I want to see it

No, Hasbro killed it dead.  I have a copy, but I have to figure out which HDD it's on then I can forward it.


Oh, and the reason I like tripleA, is because the map comes setup for me, units are already placed, ipcs are counted for me, most of the rules are coded so that I don't have to mess around with clicking a million times in battlemap

Battlemap and Mapview both come with all the pieces in place and the money set up.  I've never had to click millions of times in battlemap for anything.  Shift-Click = 5, Control-Click = 10, Shift-Control-Click drags an entire stack.  If anything, TripleA has been more annoying, slow, and harder to work with than either of the two alternatives (Battlemap or MapView) which is why I rarely use it for anything than solo play.

What Hasbro needs to do is produce a BETTER game and drive TripleA out of existence!

As for Subo and IL, Tech is not broken.  Players who don't like tech, typically, like a formulaic game where their over all strategy can be the same no matter what.  Sometimes I really enjoy playing these people because they get totally pissed off at you when you don't play by their rules!  (AAR Japan taking out America first or AA50 Italy ignoring Africa and sapping Russia for a faster kill.)

Honestly, it's been my opinion, that those players who refuse to use technology are generally the lower skilled players that need the rules to remain static.  The, in my opinion, better players, generally allow technology because they know how to use it and how to work around an enemy who gets it.

As for the Italian AA Gun vs SBR (Dondoo and Romu) honestly, in TripleA the AA Guns are insanely accurate anyway.  I swear they mis-programmed it so the Die choices were 1, 1, 1, 4, 5, 6 instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.  Same with DAAK's dice roller for AA Guns.  Using either of the platforms forces me to change tactics completely because of the disproportionate number of AA hits.  (I've got tally sheets, they used to be in the low 60% range for fatalities, they've recently dropped into the mid-50% range.)


And Nix, i agree, they should AT LEAST reprint Anniversary!  If only so I can buy another 5 sets and sell them on eBay for a 400% markup!


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 16, 2009, 07:16:14 am
@ Jenn, how difficult is this to understand, if you have ever played a single game of Revised or AA50, every game is different, every tactic and strategy is different in each games regardless of optional rules. There are no such thing as static strats and tactics and decisions in A&A, if someone thinks it is, they are delusional.

The best A&A players can handle both LL and ADS, but if a game is played with tech on, the side will win which gets the most powerful techs early on. If you don't believe me then I challenge you for a game where I get HBs, paras, and long range at the start of the game, then try to beat me with your strats  :roll:

Possibly, the players who cannot play w/o tech is the players who need luck to win, not skills.

But at least we agree that Hasbro should make a better game than TripleA, b/c then we would prefer the official game rather than TripleA. It must have all the options than TripleA have, and better graphics, if not, then the official game will not be better than TripleA.





Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 16, 2009, 08:38:44 am
Yes, there are static strategies.  I'm not talking about a set of exact moves every game (perhaps the same open, but not every turn.) 

Strategy 1:  SBR the enemy
Strategy 2:  Kill Germany First
Strategy 3:  Kill Italy First
Strategy 4:  Kill Japan First
Strategy 5:  Slow Japan/Kill Italy

Etc.

Those are just the allied ones.



As for you getting the trifecta at the start of the game, sure, but I want it to be America that has it and they go the first 5 game turns with no income. (Since you'll have to spend that much over the period of the game to get all three techs for one nation.)


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 16, 2009, 09:27:25 am
There are only strategies, not static strategies. I make different decisions in every single game, this is what matters most. How different strats are conducted is the most important factors for winning the game.

Whether we like it or not, some strats are more efficient than others, regardless of LL or ADS.

There are overall strats like KJF and KGF, but they are not static strats, only general strats.

It's not coincidental that many A&A players think tech is completely broken.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 16, 2009, 10:14:00 am
You use different TACTICS to achieve your STRATEGY but your STRATEGY is pretty much set after round 3. 

Many of, in my opinion, weaker players do not like technology because they can be deploying a certain STRATEGY and then their opponent could get a technology that neutralizes that STRATEGY.  These, in my opinion, weaker players cannot handle it and so they refuse to play with technology.  It's not about whether or not technology is broken, it's all about their inability to compensate for, and work around technology.

You know, you COULD spend thousands of IPCs and not get a single technology.  Or you could buy a single die with Russia and Italy and get a tech that helps eventually.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 16, 2009, 02:33:22 pm

I do agree that winning against an opponent that obtains a the "right tech" working around the tech requires ability but on the other hand winning obtaining the "right tech" requires more luck than ability.

So I have the possibility for winning a potentially more harder game but at same time I may lose in a fast manner.

Tech is like an House Rule I think and Larry Harris has rightly classified it as optional in Anniversary.
With my playgroup we like a lot the National Adavantages in Revised (that I would like to have in Anniversary... Italian tank that may retreat from battles... :mrgreen:) that we usually assigned with dice. Obtaining Dive bombers or Panzer Blitz for Germany was almost overkill. Winning against them was really enjoing. Also they are more like House Rules.

Then, HR may like or not but they are not mandatory and IMHO is not right to think that a player that choose to not use a HR is a worst player of another that use it.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 16, 2009, 02:50:58 pm
The only thing tech does different is even more randomness, this is exactly the same issue as in the LL vs ADS discussion. In the long run, the best player will win.

The biggest difference is that you need to play more games with ADS and/or tech than in LL, but the best STRATEGY A&A player will win in the long run. So stop lying about good or bad players, b/c the greater or lesser randomness will even out in the long run. And Larry Harris have said that he hates tech.

If I was the game designer I would not force LL as a mandatory rule, and if players still wants to use tech then it is a good idea to keep it as an optional rule, but this is not about skills, is about what we like and what we don't like, and many players don't like tech so we play w/o it. I you claim that players who prefers no tech is not so good as tech players, you better prove it, or stop lying. It's the same as claiming soccer players are better players than basketball players b/c there is more randomness in soccer, and it is the same as claiming that the best players will not will in the long run!!!


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Crossover on July 16, 2009, 02:58:43 pm
Hi Commander Jennifer,

first, this post is about closing tripleA by Hasbro which sucks. They are afraid people not going to buy their games but simply play AaA online. They did not consider that friends next door will never play it online, they just meet and play. But if you don't have someone to play with, why buy that game ?? The online version is a good opportunity to find players and just play. It's a shame for Hasbro after years of experience with Axis & Allies and its potential buyers to not have foreseen this trend and missed to place their own online product.

as a second point: You are completely wrong. Better players tend to not play with technology, because that kind of game play requires 100% strategic skills and better players have that know-how.
As an easy example: a complete stupid player researchs some overwhelming techs, such as LRA and HB, simply builds bombers and kick the crap out of Germany and Italy. Tell me what special skills does that kind of gameplay require? Absolutely nothing! Every idiot can play like that ( I am not saying that people that play like that are idiots, i say everyone can simply play like that!). Compare this with an US player having a strong fleet against Japan, cleverly uses the starting planes from all his ACs doing some action and land on some allied-controlled islands, while newly build fighters land on the now empty ACs after some action. Or playing the Allies combined, such as UK captures an island, while US is landing masses of fighters on it, preventing Japan from recapturing that island. This is skilled gameplay, not researching heavy bombers. - My Opinion - 


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 16, 2009, 03:39:43 pm
Quote
....and IL, Tech is not broken.

I didn't say it was. I said the choices are something like 'food fillers' for lack of better choices. Its like a meatloaf made with ingredients that could show a bit more creative input.

Advanced Artillery, Mechanized Infantry and a few others are 'tricks' to avoid directly adding these units to the game as new pieces, but 'invented' by taking the existing ideas and adding nothing really in terms of a new idea that leads to a new dynamic strategy.

NO reality has these technologies in a game. Both existed in WW1. If you look at the actual major technologies that were important and first used in WW2, both of these would NEVER make the list.

However, Atomic Bomb should be on the list, as well as ASW, Wolf pack, and various others that SHOULD have been these choices. I swear to god that Mechanized Infantry were supposed to be in this game and were left out at the last minute when WOTC determined that development costs would overrun budget. So somebody probably said: "Hey just make it a Technology!" and this cheesy way of fitting it in came about. I think that its inclusion was a test run of the idea to see how it worked because they didn't play test it but wanted to try it.

To me games should not be a testing ground for ideas in a weak form so that a more practical version may appear in future games. Of course this is only my insight in this design and i can be entirely wrong. But i do know if i had this in any of my house rules i might get a baseball bat in the back of my head for being so ridiculous.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: critmonster on July 16, 2009, 04:30:53 pm
...you better prove it, or stop lying.
Please learn the difference between fact and opinion, and also drop the hostility it accomplishes nothing


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: bugoo on July 16, 2009, 04:40:46 pm
This is about TripleA being shut down.  Not tech, don't we have enough of those threads already?

Secondly, if they started with TripleA where will they end?  BattleMap uses the same exact map, could that be shut down?  Could IL's deluxe map he made be forced off the net?  Etc.

Doesn't really matter though, i'll still use tripleA and now I will not purchase the new game they are making.  Period.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Veqryn on July 16, 2009, 05:42:45 pm
yes, every thread on this forum seems to get hijacked at some point into either a discussion about tech, nos, dice, strats, rules, etc.

PLEASE EVERYONE,
even if you do not use TripleA, please express your solidarity with other A&A players and other forum members by SENDING HASBRO AN EMAIL PLZ


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Mr Morden on July 16, 2009, 07:29:16 pm
I haven't read all of this thread, but in case anyone hasn't said it...

Maybe they shut it down because they are about to sell a better version themselves?  :?


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 16, 2009, 09:14:45 pm
Quote
Maybe they shut it down because they are about to sell a better version themselves?

Hello? Thats exactly what it must mean. They remove the competition so they can maximize the success of their product.

Except for the fact that when they release a new boardgame they do absolutely nothing to support it, so this could be some kind of 'chimp reaction' from stale bananas. WOTC chimps often do radical things for no good reason because somebody pulled their chain too hard or a chimp fell out of its tree.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 17, 2009, 02:03:07 am
Hasbro did not support the CD-rom from 98, so they probably are not going to support an A&A game if they make it.

It's easy to make something with better graphics than TripleA, and it's a question of money, just hire a bunch of coders then the official game will be much better than TripleA. But there is good reason that many of us prefer TripleA before GTO, and that is that imo, the only thing which is better at GTO is better graphics. TripleA has tons of options compared to the GTO version.

And it's doubtful that Hasbro will manage to shut down TripleA, the only problem at the moment is that the development process is stopped b/c it can't be hosted at sourceforge until the copyright issue has been solved, or fixed, but it can be hosted elsewhere. This hole thing pisses me off, Hasbro is not interested in making a better product than TripleA, so they use a lawyer and send a letter, instead of hiring coders to make a better game than triplea, I myself and other players will chose whatever game or software platform we think suits our needs most.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Nix on July 17, 2009, 02:49:03 am
We need to get the lobby going again.


they canīt really ban a lobby, even if we only uses a IRC channel it would suffice. then we just set up a normal direct connect game.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Twigley on July 17, 2009, 04:56:08 am
.

Advanced Artillery, Mechanized Infantry and a few others are 'tricks' to avoid directly adding these units to the game as new pieces, but 'invented' by taking the existing ideas and adding nothing really in terms of a new idea that leads to a new dynamic strategy.

NO reality has these technologies in a game. Both existed in WW1. If you look at the actual major technologies that were important and first used in WW2, both of these would NEVER make the list.


Well maybe they could have done both - had it as tech - and create pieces which could only be used after the tech was acquired. I always thought they should have done that with jet fighters from 2nd Ed. on.

You could have a helicopter tech! (God knows what it would be).


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Twigley on July 17, 2009, 05:01:10 am
PS: It does suck about triple A. If anything because a lot of people spent a lot of time putting all that together and now it's been f**ked.

It's just important to stay informed about where things go from here. Where there's a will there's a way. There must be ways for the willing to get around legal restrictions.

We wait and see.

PPS: I doubt an A&A game is going to come out from Hasbro. In reality - whenever I looked at Triple A they had at most a few 100 downloads. It's hardly a market for a commercial game is it?

That's why I don't understand Hasbro - they seem to be being rather petty about it all. It's not like there's copies of AA50 not flying off the shelves while triple A downloads are hitting their second million. (I live in London and got my AA50 from NEW ZEALAND for chrissakes).

Hey ho.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 17, 2009, 06:08:11 am
It's fully possible that there will be software version from Hasbro, but I didn't hear anything yet, so I don't believe it until I see it.
And if we look at history, Hasbro/wotc did not spend a lot of resources on A&A, even if the boardgames look fine. I have very strong doubts that an official A&A game will be better than TripleA, and that is not b/c TripleA is very good, it's b/c Wotc/Hasbro don't care about A&A.

At least they should make GTO as good as TripleA, even if I don't like the layout. An official software A&A game must have all the options of TripleA, plus the graphics of GTO, and all A&A variants, not only Revised, b/c thats the only thing GTO can offer right now, and it took several months before they implemented bids... :roll:


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 17, 2009, 12:44:50 pm
Quote
Dear Wizards Forums Account Holder-

We are contacting you because you have not logged into your forums account in over a year. Due to a change in our accounts system, your account may be deactivated.

You must reactivate your account by 11:59 p.m. PDT, on Tuesday, July 21st in order to protect it.

Quote
Please disregard the below email that you received today regarding your forums account. This email mistakenly went out to active members instead of inactive members.

Your account is still active in our system, and you do not need to take any further action.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

In light of the recent actions regarding the removal of Triple A, this chimp action can only make sence in a continuing series of stupid chimp antics and chimp behavior. I post at these forums at least once a week. Its like a chicken with a head cut off.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 17, 2009, 02:24:19 pm
If it wasn't for the forthcoming release of AA42 I could suspect that Hasbro/Wotc wanted to kill A&A completely...!

Most of the members on AA.org are mostly, or also playing the boardgame f2f in local playgroups, but many of us prefer the software versions of A&A, be it Abattlemap, GTO or TripleA. The most important things we have in common, is that we love A&A, preferably Revised and AA50. That's the most important matter here, not if it is boardgame or software.

We agree on some matters IL, and we disagree on other issues, but we both love A&A.

TripleA will not be removed, but the developing process have been halted.
TripleA helps A&A evolving, as does the hundreds or thousands of local f2f playgroups across the world.

Wotc/Hasbro are really into a strategy of sabotaging A&A seriously, imo.  Where will it end???


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Funcioneta on July 17, 2009, 03:47:08 pm
Just pray they don't release a new version each 3 months as they do with Magic, making the game unplayable for all saving 24/7 players  :lol: They are walking in that direction, making random changes to the rules (Nerfed Industry tech) and changing the faqs each month  :|


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 17, 2009, 04:36:09 pm
Quote
We agree on some matters IL, and we disagree on other issues, but we both love A&A.

we don't agree on LL. I only really favor it for AA guns firing at multiple planes. Yes AA must be protected and evolve to greater things. Yes we fight for this!


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: SgtBlitz on July 17, 2009, 10:13:01 pm
Thanks for the email links Veqryn, sent emails off to all those bastards at WoTC and Hasbro.  The amount of apathy on these forums is astonishing; Hasbro threatens a DMCA takedown to a freely hosted fanservice of one of their lesser sold products, and the majority of people just flame it into oblivion and even suggest that the program sucked anyway and deserved to be shut down...  When Hasbro comes after your AABattlemap and Mapview programs next, don't expect much support from me... :cry:

Let's get everyone on the same page here, dammit!  Refuse to buy any Hasbro products and let them know that what they are doing is infuriating their fan base by clamping down on fan-made freeware!  If they had made a superior product that was worthy of  attention that'd be one thing, but threatening copyright infringement on a freeware game that has a total of 300 users worldwide is ridiculous.  Most of you out there apparently don't even like TripleA, even though somehow it was popular enough to have been shut down.

Definitely NOT buying AA1942 after Hasbro has completely eliminated any chance of me having fun with the Axis and Allies franchise anymore.  People in town don't play the boardgame, they can't stay around for 12 hours to play one game, plus you can't save those games anyway to pick up later.  TripleA was the easiest way for me to find matches in their online lobby and ran generally flawlessly for me.  THEY HAD A WORKING VERSION OF AA50 THAT I WANTED TO USE FOR THE TECH TOURNEY.  So F*** you, Hasbro, never buying one of your products again.

Hopefully we'll get somewhere with this, Veqryn, as we apparently are the only ones who give a rats ass.  I just can't understand the total lack of support from the Axis and Allies Community, as they apparently will use ANY thread to pointlessly debate about Technology rules while Hasbro gleefully pulls the rug out from under them.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: a44bigdog on July 18, 2009, 12:18:20 am
This is interesting because Hasbro sold the ELECTRONIC rights of all the Avolon Hill games to Atari several years ago. This is why there never was an electronic version of Squad Leader released and why Atari put out the atrocious RTS version of Axis and Allies a year or so ago. So if I am correct Hasbro dose not even have the legal authority to shut down trippleA.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 18, 2009, 03:42:26 am
Sometimes I get carried away in discussions on what rules we like to have and not to have in A&A.

But TripleA will not be shutdown for long, not if there is enough interest in it.

I put up TripleA for downloading so it is still available, but it is sad that it cannot be hosted on sourceforge anymore, b/c it means that the development process is stopped or slowed down.

@a44bigdog, can you link to documentation or a web site for this, b/c if you are right then the lawyers of Hasbro made a mistake, which probably isn't the case, but it's interesting to check it out anyway.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: a44bigdog on July 18, 2009, 08:12:51 am
Not right of the top of my head Subotai. Such comes from discussions of Multi Man Publishing putting out the Advanced Squad Leader rulebook in PDF format a few years ago when it was out of print.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 18, 2009, 08:39:10 am
The example of a bad player getting LRA+HB and winning against a good one is EXTREMELY improbable.  First, you have to miraculously get both technologies early enough in the game for them to be some use to you.  If you are up against a good player, that really limits your time frame.  Second, you have to know how to use them, if you are a bad player, that is very improbably.  Third, you have to be able to get them where you need them, if you are against a good player, that is improbable.  Fourth, you have to still build ground units since even LRA HBs only defend with one die at 1.  A single tank could, theoretically, take out a dozen HBs if the tank is attacking.  Fifth, you're good player has to make a number of mistakes, even if he does not go technology, in order for the bad player to win.


More likely, you have two bad players, one who went tech, one who either did not, or did and didnt get good ones.  Or you have two good players, one who got the techs but faces someone who also got them or knew how to neutralize them.


Remember, in previous incarnations of the game, a technology was a HUGE boon to the side that got it.  In this version, every technology nerfs a different technology.  It's balanced. 


Lastly, I say that it is my opinion that players who are not as good as others at the game, refuse to play with technologies because it adds depth to the game, a depth they cannot handle.  If we have player A with a 7 wins per loss ratio who loses to player B with a 1 win to 7 losses ratio because player B played player A in a tech game, then I have to think maybe the better player did win, and the worse player lost.



Hasbro will not release a game of this.  I think they only released the CD Rom before so they had ammo in court against Dogs of War.  That way they could tell the judge "hey, we have a game, they are infringing on our copywrites by giving this one away!" That's why it was never really supported and was buggier than shizzit.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 18, 2009, 11:47:03 am
@ Jennifer, how delusional can you possibly be??? It's not about tech or no tech, the players who wins a series of games is better than the players who loses that series of games! You disagree with this statement??

The question is how many games between 2 players is necessary to determine the better player. Maybe 10 games, maybe 20, but probably not more than 30-40 games.

This is not a law of nature, but very close imo. The players who wins many more games than other players, regardless of what setting is used, being LL or ADS, tech or no tech, Revised or AA50, optional rules or no optional rules is better than the players who loses more games than he/she wins.

Are you seriously claiming that the weaker player will win a series of games, and not the better player? That is the conclusion you are making with your statement. I chose to define this as stupidity, and delusions, b/c if any player plays against any other player in a series of games, it's the total result that will matter, not if said players prefer tech or no tech.
The depth that tech adds to the game is randomness, aka good and bad luck, aka good and bad dice rolls, but this will even out in the long run, that is, a series of games. I have a hard time believing that you are a math teacher. Plz stop lying about aspects that is close to the laws of the nature.
I'm repeating the only possible conclusion about your statement, if you do not see this yourself, your statements claim that it is not the better player who will win in the long run, but the player(s) who prefer tech!!!!!!







Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Hobbes on July 18, 2009, 11:53:50 am
this thread is sure having a tendency to go off topic...


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 18, 2009, 01:29:57 pm
@ Jennifer, how delusional can you possibly be??? It's not about tech or no tech, the players who wins a series of games is better than the players who loses that series of games! You disagree with this statement??


That's been my point.  If you cannot win in the average game with technology, then I feel you are the inferior player.  To me, blaming a game loss on your opponent(s) getting technology is as silly as blaming it on dice.  You are either the better player(s) or not!

Coupled with that is that many players who refuse to play with technology also seem to lose a lot more often when technology is used.  To me, that means they are probably the lesser of the two players, skill wise.  Obviously, since they tend to lose more games when playing with technology, that is why they refuse to play with technology.  Which leads me to the indicator that if a player refuses to play a game with technology available, they are probably - in my opinion - the lesser player. (These are also the types of players who play a very specific game, which is to mean, they expect their opponent to act in a certain manner and plan to use a specific over all strategy which they will select from their list of strategies based on how their opponent is playing.  This is why I creamed NCSCSwitch in our KJF game together, he just could not handle a Russia that was overly aggressive, a suicidal England and an America bombing the crud out of the Japanese navy.  It was not in his play style, he had no strategy to pull out of his bag to deal with it, as such, he had to think and thus, ended up losing.)


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 18, 2009, 02:25:51 pm
It is a matter of fact that using tech means more randomness, but this will not matter in the long run. Agree or disagree?

Tech and/or ADS/LL and every other variant does not have a greater influence on players skills level, it's the total statistics that matter. To put it very simple, I'm not a better or lesser player than you b/c I prefer no tech, I'm a better or lesser player than you if I win or lose more games against you, for a certain number of games. This has nothing to do with tech or no tech, b/c it's the total number of wins and losses which determines who is the better player. How can I explain this any simpler? You are obsessed with tech or no tech, but this aspect has no relevance at all. All that matters is that in whatever setting is used, for a certain number of games, the better player is the one who wins more than he/she loses. Tech or no tech is absolutely irrelevant in deciding the players skills. And this is not about my or your opininon, it's as simple as the best player will win in the long run.
Tech or no tech is irrelevant for playing skills, as is LL or ADS, it's the number of wins and losses which determines the best players regardless of if the games are with tech or no tech.

And it is not about how I feel or how you feel, it's about empirical data. I don't like tech, and you prefer tech, but this matter is not about feelings, it's about facts. The better player will win regardless of tech or no tech. And I can assure you, that the best A&A players who prefer LL and no tech, are also very good in ADS and tech, but I doubt that they will waste their time by showing you this simple fact.





Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: bugoo on July 18, 2009, 02:35:20 pm
Can we please talk about Hasbro shutting down tripleA instead of debating tech it yet ANOTHER thread.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 18, 2009, 02:46:01 pm
@bugoo, I totally agree, now, how about a $5 unit bid for allies, AA50 41 +NO, LL, no tech game, I'm axis  :evil:  :-)

Sometimes I have a hard time controlling my feelings...   :oops:


But I don't think TripleA will be shut down, not even with the A&A maps included, it's just a pity that the development process has been halted. I really like to see a stable 1.0.4. with AA50.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Nix on July 19, 2009, 12:28:02 am
Is there a game lobby for trippla anywhere? IRC etc?


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Veqryn on July 19, 2009, 05:40:54 pm
Whats with the apathy here?
I thought you guys liked Axis and Allies.  Who cares if like TripleA or not, send Hasbro an email before they crush more of our community!


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 19, 2009, 05:58:50 pm
As I said, personal opinion Subo.  Obviously, no generalization will cover the minutia of numerous players and playing styles. However, it does cover my EXPERIENCE with players.  MOST players I have played that refuse to play tech, when they finally DO play a tech game, usually lose.  Not because I get a killer tech, but because their skill is lacking.  They need a static game where the rules do not change to win.  It's like Hasbro.  They need the competition killed to create a static playing field where the rules do not change so they can win.

Doesn't make the player who refuses to play with tech a bad person anymore than Hasbro refusing to allow competition being a bad company.  It just is.  Neither seem to be able to compete on an open and free playing field, one that allows competition to make them build a better product or one that forces the player to open his or her mind to knew ideas and new strategies.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Woodstock on July 19, 2009, 10:25:49 pm
Thanks for the email links Veqryn, sent emails off to all those bastards at WoTC and Hasbro.  The amount of apathy on these forums is astonishing; Hasbro threatens a DMCA takedown to a freely hosted fanservice of one of their lesser sold products, and the majority of people just flame it into oblivion and even suggest that the program sucked anyway and deserved to be shut down...  When Hasbro comes after your AABattlemap and Mapview programs next, don't expect much support from me... :cry:

Let's get everyone on the same page here, dammit!  Refuse to buy any Hasbro products and let them know that what they are doing is infuriating their fan base by clamping down on fan-made freeware!  If they had made a superior product that was worthy of  attention that'd be one thing, but threatening copyright infringement on a freeware game that has a total of 300 users worldwide is ridiculous.  Most of you out there apparently don't even like TripleA, even though somehow it was popular enough to have been shut down.

Definitely NOT buying AA1942 after Hasbro has completely eliminated any chance of me having fun with the Axis and Allies franchise anymore.  People in town don't play the boardgame, they can't stay around for 12 hours to play one game, plus you can't save those games anyway to pick up later.  TripleA was the easiest way for me to find matches in their online lobby and ran generally flawlessly for me.  THEY HAD A WORKING VERSION OF AA50 THAT I WANTED TO USE FOR THE TECH TOURNEY.  So F*** you, Hasbro, never buying one of your products again.

Hopefully we'll get somewhere with this, Veqryn, as we apparently are the only ones who give a rats a**.  I just can't understand the total lack of support from the Axis and Allies Community, as they apparently will use ANY thread to pointlessly debate about Technology rules while Hasbro gleefully pulls the rug out from under them.

Quoted for support. +1 karma there.
I am stunned to see that some people keep on going off-topic, pushing me their opinion down my throat, as if it were the truth.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 19, 2009, 11:57:01 pm
@ Jennifer, we should make another thread for our discussion, but there is no such thing as a static game in A&A, b/c every single game is different, regardless of what rules are being used.

As for the campaign against TripleA, this has been slowing down the development of TripleA, but TripleA is not down yet, and probalby will not be shut down in the future either.




Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 20, 2009, 05:51:31 am

I believe that the only important thing proposed in this thread is the idea of sending an email to Hasbro explaining why TripleA is a benefit for them!

The discussione about tech and other belongs to other threads. (They are interesting but here are not the place to discuss those ideas)


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 20, 2009, 07:10:06 am
Sent you a PM Subo.  I think you are confused on my meaning.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: DarthMaximus on July 20, 2009, 07:53:56 am
I think it is a shame what happen to TripleA.  I actually liked the graphics for the latest Revised one.  I didn't get the AA50 yet, was waiting for stable release.

I have to say the TripleA developers were/are great, in the past they included the function to post turns directly to the forum which was extremely helpful.  Not sure if that was still active though.  But still they were open to anything that would help on-line play.  IMO any aesthetics issues (graphics) were secondary to the fact that it made on-line play very easy.
 



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 20, 2009, 09:26:35 am
@ Jennifer, yes we can either have that discussion on pm, or another thread.

As for TripleA, I don't think it will be shut down, I think/hope that the developing process can continue, but not at sourceforge. And a stable 1.0.4 including AA50 is not far away. The devs can also continue the bug fixing on their own, and releasing the updates, and/or a stable version when it is finished.

It's been a week since the DMCA takedown notice, and TripleA stable+unstable has had over 600 downloads until now.

Maybe Hasbro/Wotc will release a software version, but I don't believe it until I see it.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 20, 2009, 05:55:38 pm
If they do release a new version of their software, I hope it is at least stable enough to host a 5 player game!  The MSN Gaming zone just could not! (It did great for X-Wing vs TIE Fighter though!)


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 21, 2009, 03:15:02 am

Me and my friends are using the unstable versione 1.0.3.4 and it works really well. There are some bugs to solve, for example about the fleet movement.

We are also sending the email proposed by Veqryn at the email addresses he provided.

I hope that a lot of people join this initiative TripleA developers deserve at least a minimum effort in trying to explain how they have contributed to the A&A community even if they are not Hasbro employee and do not allow Hasbro to make money directly.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: SgtBlitz on July 21, 2009, 05:50:28 pm
Man, looks like this thread is pretty much dead.  At least the TripleA lobby is still up and running.  aabigdog44 could you put that info about the electronic rights to axis and allies belonging to Atari on the TripleA development site?  I'll link your post on the forums to it.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Veqryn on July 21, 2009, 06:58:51 pm
I suggest you slightly change my email message or write a new version.  Unless we can get a ����-ton of people to spam petition emails to hasbro (doubtful given the current complete lack of enthusiasm), personalized and empathetic emails will suit our case much better.

Thank you to anyone who sent emails.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 22, 2009, 03:20:03 am

I have made only a slight modification, but from mine group of friend (users of our italian forum) we are sending quite the same email.

I am trying to convince the most people is possible.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: bongaroo on July 22, 2009, 06:16:02 am
I've sent some emails to explain my dismay.  Hasbro can say bye bye to any further purchases from me.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 22, 2009, 08:17:59 am
The issue here is that:

The chimps at Wotc won't help any hypothetical upcoming official software game release with that letter to shutdown TripleA, b/c TripleA will be changed in some small details, so it will still live on and evolve, if the coders want to work on it. The only way Hasbro/Wotc can out-compete or get rid of TripleA is by making a better product.

But the chimps at Wotc can't read, so they have not read the Origin of the Species. They don't know what evolution is. The way the laws of the nature works is that you don't get rid of competition by man made law, but to evolve better than the competitors, adapt or die. The laws of nature are much more relevant than judicial laws.

That's why there's a great chance that any official software version from Hasbro/Wotc will not be better than TripleA.
What to expect from chimps, I mean, we departed from the chimps 5.000.000 years ago, but there are some leftovers, like Hasbro/Wotc employees.




Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 22, 2009, 09:37:08 am
Quote
The issue here is that:

The chimps at Wotc won't help any hypothetical upcoming official software game release with that letter to shutdown TripleA, b/c TripleA will be changed in some small details, so it will still live on and evolve, if the coders want to work on it. The only way Hasbro/Wotc can out-compete or get rid of TripleA is by making a better product.

But the chimps at Wotc can't read, so they have not read the Origin of the Species. They don't know what evolution is. The way the laws of the nature works is that you don't get rid of competition by man made law, but to evolve better than the competitors, adapt or die. The laws of nature are much more relevant than judicial laws.

That's why there's a great chance that any official software version from Hasbro/Wotc will not be better than TripleA.
What to expect from chimps, I mean, we departed from the chimps 5.000.000 years ago, but there are some leftovers, like Hasbro/Wotc employees.

My god man i love your style!

This prose is a beautiful use of sarcasm. Keep up the chimp talk. Id love it for WOTC to become associated with chimps in the everyday lexicon of common usage as payback for the angst they have caused the public for such shortsighted and stupid practices. I have started this trend a number of years ago. If you google WOTC chimps you will find a number of my posts.

I would hope that WOTC is always addressed ....as Chimps


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Hobbes on July 22, 2009, 10:07:01 am
Quote from: Imperious Leader
I would hope that WOTC is always addressed ....as Chimps

What about the poor chimps? They might not like to be associated with WOTC and throw a lawsuit at you for slander and libel  :-D


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 22, 2009, 10:13:27 am
Your assuming they are not chimps? Since they are chimps how can they be upset? They certainly are not upset about not lifting a finger to market their AA products. Certainly not upset about the rubbish manner they conduct business. These are the things they should be worried about.

I will send them more bananas to placate them. Chimps go wild over such things.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Hobbes on July 22, 2009, 10:37:35 am
Your assuming they are not chimps? Since they are chimps how can they be upset? They certainly are not upset about not lifting a finger to market their AA products. Certainly not upset about the rubbish manner they conduct business. These are the things they should be worried about.

I will send them more bananas to placate them. Chimps go wild over such things.

Well, we didn't evolve from chimps, but had a common ancestor, and in my opinion chimps got the better end of evolution than we. Just look at it: to make them happy just throw the chimps some bananas, in our case we need television and internet and living in crowded cities and gasoline prices and laws and a bunch of other things. While chimps just stand on the tree branch doing nothing and when they are hungry just stretch their arms to get a banana or something.
Hmmm...now that I think of it Wotc and Hasbro aren't much different from chimps: just release their products and wait at their offices for the money... and if someone is also taking bananas from the tree, get a rock and throw at the trespassers.

Oh well, I guess we never ceased to be monkeys after all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24)


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 22, 2009, 01:01:32 pm
LMFAO!!!


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 24, 2009, 05:08:42 am

I received an official response from Wizards of the Coast to my email (organized as Veqryn suggested).

They said:

Quote
Thank you for contacting us with your concern.

Wizards of the Coast has licensed Axis & Allies and other Avalon Hill games to GameTableOnline.com for online play. We encourage Avalon Hill fans to visit Game Table Online to continue their online play experience.

So, I suppose there is not any planning of doing computer games or other. The reason for the legal action agaisnt TripleA is that GTO has the license for online play.

 :-(


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: bongaroo on July 24, 2009, 05:22:49 am
Screw that.  I'm not paying money everytime I want a competitive game of Axis and Allies.  TripleA will live on underground I reckon.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Nix on July 24, 2009, 09:14:50 am
As i said, they can stuff it..   No more buys for me, they mishandled the Aniversery edition (limited edition ftl) and the tripleA issue.


So screw them lets make sure tripleA stays online one way or the other.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 24, 2009, 09:17:44 am

This prose is a beautiful use of sarcasm. Keep up the chimp talk.

Thx man, you invented the chimp metaphor/concept for Hasbro/Wotc employees.

Now, this clip is similar to how Hasbro attacks TripleA :-))   or any other freeware software version which makes it possibly to play A&A on a PC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKpZUsRJWBg

Although the (real) chimpanzees use only a couple of minutes to solve this problem, Wotc/Hasbro chimps would not solve this problem as fast as our ancestors in this video clip.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Cmdr Jennifer on July 24, 2009, 09:20:15 am
We all know that there are people who will send the program around anyway. 


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Hobbes on July 24, 2009, 09:38:32 am

I received an official response from Wizards of the Coast to my email (organized as Veqryn suggested).

They said:

Quote
Thank you for contacting us with your concern.

Wizards of the Coast has licensed Axis & Allies and other Avalon Hill games to GameTableOnline.com for online play. We encourage Avalon Hill fans to visit Game Table Online to continue their online play experience.

So, I suppose there is not any planning of doing computer games or other. The reason for the legal action agaisnt TripleA is that GTO has the license for online play.

 :-(

I got the same answer today, with exactly the same wording. After seeing your answer, I am definitely going to write back to them because that is no way to reply to a costumer, especially because that answer completely ignores some issues I mentioned to them.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 24, 2009, 09:50:31 am
Yes perhaps GTO decided that it cant bite enough of the apple so they yanked the chimps about and told them: close down the competing versions of AA because we paid for a license to make AA and they did not. The hate may be redirected against chimps at GTO.

Yes i think we have an answer.

Game table online just shut down TripleA!


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: allboxcars on July 24, 2009, 09:52:51 am

I received an official response from Wizards of the Coast to my email (organized as Veqryn suggested).

They said:

Quote
Thank you for contacting us with your concern.

Wizards of the Coast has licensed Axis & Allies and other Avalon Hill games to GameTableOnline.com for online play. We encourage Avalon Hill fans to visit Game Table Online to continue their online play experience.

So, I suppose there is not any planning of doing computer games or other. The reason for the legal action agaisnt TripleA is that GTO has the license for online play.

 :-(

I gather TripleA was free and GTO is not?

Makes you wonder what GTO was thinking.
Pay for the rights to market something when people are already using the product for free?
What kind of cabron buys a ring for the village bicycle?


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Imperious Leader on July 24, 2009, 10:01:11 am
http://www.battleforces.com/screenshots

This looks interesting. its AA but its not like Trip A


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Panzer Leader on July 24, 2009, 12:16:47 pm
Oh well, I guess we never ceased to be monkeys after all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24)
[/quote]

Hobbes - Great Chimp video link :lol:

I have the stable version @TripleA and it works, but could not get the unstabble version to download. It seems like it is pretty good as far as a free program is concerned, there are some bugs, and the AI is a dimwit sometimes, but still good fun. Obviously ment to be played against another person through sourceforge which is a lot better. I think it is a little cheesy for Hasbro to start worrying about this now as it has been around for a while and they are not really involved with AA anymore anyway. I think this all started with GTO as mentioned by Romulus. It is a shame as AA fans are some of the most loyal and they will buy every product (almost) AA comes out with.

There is obviously a demand for an online PC game version and even a stand alone PC game version of AA because of the quicker game play and less time require to finish a game and lets face it, this is the computer age and boardgames in general are almost on the way out. Personnaly I prefer sitting around the table with a bunch of friends playing a "real" AA game, but that can take all day or sometimes several, but at home after diner on a week night, a PC game makes way more sense. Avalon Hill / WOTC / Atari (or Hasbro) should make their own new PC version and simply blow all the others away and that would solve all their issues as AA fans would flock to the newer better game even if they have had enough of the "Chimps", just because they love the game.

I actually have a copy of the original Hasbro PC game and I still play it now and then as it is not that bad. But with the new computer advances, etc, they could come up with one PC game that has ALL AA game versions built-in so you could play any of them anytime at home alone (Pacific, Europe, AA50, AAR, Battle of the Bulge, D-Day, Etc.), and they could improve the AI as to be just like facing an experience veteran human player. That would be the cats meow.

If they made this happen everyone would quickly forget about all the other versions and this would be the new hot topic. 8-)



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on July 24, 2009, 04:36:22 pm
GTO is free for me and others who registered many months ago, (at least it still is free for A&A), but GTO need much more work and coding to be comparable to TripleA, imo. Maybe they'll get there, but now they're not even close, imo.

I would welcome any official software version which includes all A&A games, and a serious platform/server for online play. But GTO was/is not meant to be implementing all A&A versions online, and GTO lacks 15-20 features which should be implemented even before they launched the online application. As long as TripleA has many more options and features it will still be the number 1 choice for many A&A online players.

And even if GTO also implemented a LL feature lately, this is not enough for hardcore competitive A&A players.



Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Veqryn on July 24, 2009, 07:07:51 pm
I decided to check out GTO to see if it is any good.  Basically, the website only has 1 version of A&A, which happens to be Revised.  Also, you are allowed to play it against a computer player for free, but if you want to play against a Human player, you will have to shell out $9.00 (US) (and that is a one time thing, not every time you want to, just the first time).  There are also no options available.  Lastly, as far as the actual game went, I have no clue because it would not load despite my 4 attempts.
All in all, TripleA kicks its a**.  Not only is it free, but I can play all the different versions A&A, and play user created maps or even make my own.  The rules are hardcoded, and there are plenty of options when setting up the game.  There is an in game editor for when you want to create your own situations, or undo something, etc.  There is also a calculator to give you your chances of success in a particular battle.  There are more people in an online lobby to connect to who want to play A&A (whereas GTO has a variety of games, so when I logged on there was not a single game of A&A going, nor apparently anyone interested in it). 

Lastly, I have not received a reply to my email yet, but I read the one above (thx romulus).  This has given me an idea.  What would it cost us to buy the rights to A&A online from hasbro too?  If it is cheap, or if it could be sold as a percentage of advertising revenue (like, 100%, i don't care) generated from an ingame side panel with some non-annoying advertisement, then maybe we could just buy the damn rights instead of going underground. 
I'll send them an email next week asking who I would have to talk to.

edit: also, I have decided to start playing webdiplomacy.net (the game Diplomacy), and would encourage people to try it out.  There is no luck involved at all.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: a44bigdog on July 24, 2009, 07:37:13 pm
I have played Revised at GTO and well frankly their program sucks. I only played one game there and will never play another one. I think the view of the map is smaller than the old trippleA was as I have not played trippleA in quite sometime. Bids are not supported and if I recall correctly neither are LHTR. My impression was mainly it was some cheesy crap with more emphasis on graphics and sound effects than actual game play.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Romulus on July 25, 2009, 05:05:03 am

As Subotai I registered on the Gleemax website and the registration was free at time. Now you have to pay 9.00$ (one time only) to play at GTO.

I have played some games and lately I go there to ses what they have now.
You may play Revised, with OOB rules (no LHTR), they introduced some sort of bid (it is possible to select between different fixed amounts).
The game is more involved with graphics (but they need at least some zoom feature) than with playability.
Performing amphibous operation, for example, is a nightmare, you have to select every single unit to embark in each transport...

GTO should contact TripleA community and paying for developing a TripleA version for their website... :)


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: VectorWega on August 04, 2009, 09:12:01 am
LMAO @ everyone in this thread getting upset because Hasbro is protecting it's intellectual rights.  I guess everyone wants to look out for their own interests, but in reality, the people in the wrong here are the developers of TripleA.  Whether the game has helped or hurt Hasbro's business, and regardless of whether or not the developers have tried to profit from the game, they have stolen from Hasbro.

Hasbro has the right to protect/control its interests and everyone should stop being so selfish and realize the full picture.  Clearly, Hasbro would like to create a revenue stream through things like a facebook application, and Hasbro should have that right.  The developers of TripleA can make a similiar game if they want, but to directly rip of Axis & Allies is completely bogus.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Funcioneta on August 05, 2009, 04:44:40 am
We want play A&A. Most of us bought physical versions (some of us had to import it because WOTC thinks worlds end after USA and UK)

We usually cannot find many players to play face to face

So we need play by internet

And we need some sort of program that allow us doing it without having the board in front of us

Hasbro not developed a proper program to do this in all this years. The old CD was buggy, has not revised or AA50 and anyway you cannot buy today in stores

TripleA is an altruist non-profit program that allows playing by internet AND gives FREE marketing for A&A products

Unless Hasbro develops a proper program that basically does the same as TripleA, Hasbro should stop damaging its customers. Because this move is only that: a unnecesary damage to customers, one that not gives any advantage to Hasbro. In fact, it damages Hasbro also, because almost none fan costumer will buy the "new" AA42 game after this damaging move. This game should be developed worlwide in stores or you will see that non anglosaxons costumers will continue playing TripleA (that will be their only option)

Until that happens, you can guess that the unnecesary damaged ones here, customers, will continue complaining


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: bongaroo on August 05, 2009, 05:35:04 am
LMAO @ everyone in this thread getting upset because Hasbro is protecting it's intellectual rights.  I guess everyone wants to look out for their own interests, but in reality, the people in the wrong here are the developers of TripleA.  Whether the game has helped or hurt Hasbro's business, and regardless of whether or not the developers have tried to profit from the game, they have stolen from Hasbro.

Hasbro has the right to protect/control its interests and everyone should stop being so selfish and realize the full picture.  Clearly, Hasbro would like to create a revenue stream through things like a facebook application, and Hasbro should have that right.  The developers of TripleA can make a similiar game if they want, but to directly rip of Axis & Allies is completely bogus.

Funnily enough all TripleA has to do is change some names and map design and suddenly Hasbro has nothing to protect.  Which is what is happening as we speak.  Please don't get all huffy that a small team of dedicated enthusiasts is putting a large buisness to shame as far as product quality goes.


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Subotai on August 05, 2009, 06:49:16 am
@ Funcioneta, finally, after several months you post something I agree with  8-)  :lol:





Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Panzer Leader on October 06, 2009, 09:44:02 am
Your assuming they are not chimps? Since they are chimps how can they be upset? They certainly are not upset about not lifting a finger to market their AA products. Certainly not upset about the rubbish manner they conduct business. These are the things they should be worried about.

I will send them more bananas to placate them. Chimps go wild over such things.

Well, we didn't evolve from chimps, but had a common ancestor, and in my opinion chimps got the better end of evolution than we. Just look at it: to make them happy just throw the chimps some bananas, in our case we need television and internet and living in crowded cities and gasoline prices and laws and a bunch of other things. While chimps just stand on the tree branch doing nothing and when they are hungry just stretch their arms to get a banana or something.
Hmmm...now that I think of it Wotc and Hasbro aren't much different from chimps: just release their products and wait at their offices for the money... and if someone is also taking bananas from the tree, get a rock and throw at the trespassers.

Oh well, I guess we never ceased to be monkeys after all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24)
Overdue +1 karma for you. :-D


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Veqryn on November 30, 2009, 03:49:51 pm
I did indeed.  But I can't take credit for anything at all, I am not the dev, just a bum on this forum.

Also, in response to some questions about TripleA and it being "unstable" and so on:

TripleA 1.1.1.0 has just been released.
It is a fully legal version.
It is considered "unstable" but to be honest this is the most stable version I have ever played.  Never had a bug with 1.1.1.0, not seen any in any of the game's I've played. 

It has a working lobby, meaning working multiplayer.

Lastly, it is also much more user friendly than previous versions.  It includes a map downloading feature inside the main interface.  It is also very easy to develop your own maps and artwork for.

So for the love of god, or war-games in general, you have to go try out this new release.

Main Website:
http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki/TripleA (http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki/TripleA)

Download it:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/triplea/files/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/triplea/files/)

Tutorial and Help website:
http://sites.google.com/site/tripleaerniebommel/ (http://sites.google.com/site/tripleaerniebommel/)

thx,
veqryn


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: ErnieBommel on December 07, 2009, 04:10:37 am
Heya, I am hosting the TripleA Supply Depot

http://sites.google.com/site/tripleaerniebommel/
.

TripleA is available there, together with a 3-steps beginners guide (Installation, Starting a game, Adding more Maps).

I am not aware of any infringements here. No protected logos or names are used. Surely, I am thankful towards Larry Harris for creating Axis&Allies, without which - no doubt - there would not be TripleA. Nevertheless, TripleA is a computer game. Playing a live boardgame with friends is similar to, but still very different to playing a computer game. I can only recommend the board game. Live sessions are awesome. As is driving a real Ferrari compared to driving one in some Computer game. I doubt a computer game has to pay license fees to Ferrari, as long as it does not use the protected logos.
And dont anyone care to lecture me on the differences between a car and a game. Might be surprising to some, but I am aware of them... ;)

Anyone aware how it is almost impossible to protect a mathematical algorithm? Talk about Intellectual Property there.

Regards,
EB


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: Starke Von Oben on January 09, 2010, 07:33:15 am
TripleA is a fantastic program, and I've had more games this week of Classic 2nd Edition than I have had in my entire gaming life!

I was dismayed when it was closed down by those squalid obtuse mediocrities at WOTC, but am so glad that it's working again. I've been using it to introduce my girlfriend to AA2E, and we'll be having a game on the actual board later this afternoon  :-D


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: SilverBullet on October 17, 2010, 09:45:29 am
 :-)     tripleA and its many maps is the best thing going!


http://www.tripleawarclub.org/


Title: Re: Hasbro just shut down TripleA!
Post by: soldaatvanoranje on March 02, 2011, 07:54:54 am
I may something crazy here, but playing and finishing a 12 hour game is something I actually only enjoy off-line.. Nothing beats an all-nighter. Sure the wives don't like it, but they'll come to terms with it, you'll see

Nevertheless I agree on all remarks that shutting tripleA down is poor costumer management, as well as unnecessary from a sales point of view. (I even think that most TripleA-players not only have avg 3,5 AA boards at home, they'll probably also have the hasbro cd-rom, which was a perversion of AA in my humble opinion - enough reason to assume an implied license I say)

juh!
 :-D



WHAT. THE. F*CK.  Can we still play networked games on this thing with the latest client?  Cause I don't think they can shut down that.

Seriously?  HASBRO???  They made ONE super sh*tty AA CD-ROM game like 10 years ago and are shutting down ALL of TripleA because of it?  I cry bullsh*t.  AA50 is Avalon Games anyway, is the unstable AA50 client gonna be able to work???

There's like maybe 50 people online on TripleA at any given time, anyways!  Holy sh*t!  Like these people would be playing a game at home!  The ONLY way you're going to be playing (and finishing!) a 12 hour Axis and Allies game is ONLINE!  

Where's a link to a petition or something?  This is ridiculous, as there are MANY of the games available on the TripleA client that Hasbro has NO rights too!  I could see them trying to get Classic or Revised taken out but the whole client is just FOOLISH.

Hell, how am I gonna participate in the ladder now, wanted to play matches over TripleA...

Edit:  BTW, may I add I have CLASSIC, REVISED, AND AA50 SITTING IN MY CLOSET AT HOME.  GATHERING DUST.  TRIPLEA WAS THE EASIEST WAY TO FIND OPPONENTS AND GAMES.  THANKS A LOT HASBRO.  NEVER BUYING ONE OF YOUR PRODUCTS AGAIN.