Russian Invasion

[ShadowHAwk]

They also got a majority of the river crossings.  The rivers were vital to the under developed Russians...actually, they've pretty much been vital until very recently...something about communist nations not having the money or the labor to build highly sophisticated rail or road ways...

But no, I don't think anyone but the Mongols have ever captured a significant portion of Russia.

Darn those underdeveloped people kinda beat the mighty US to space. The fact that the public transportation was not that big just was a choice there. And also having about 10 years of annarchy will do that to any public service. Communism has only 1 flaw humanity ( that is there will always be greedy assholes that will not make the system work ). Dont go about how your coutry is the best in the world, it will only allienate allies from you and create even more enemies that you cant defeat, for everything you can point out being the best in i can most likely find another country that equals or is better in it.

Germany did not think the russians could offer any real resistance after the recent coup there and the lack of most senior officers in the red army. They also had a verry different air docerine then modern airforces. They did not plan on bombing the factories at all they just thought capture moscow and get it over with. Even if they wanted they did not have the capacity to destroy the factories that where moved east.

[balungaloaf]

no, read the gulag archipelago and then see more problems with communism.  It isnt greed, its absolute power and inhumanity.  Crazy people, those communists.

[ShadowHAwk]

no, read the gulag archipelago and then see more problems with communism.  It isnt greed, its absolute power and inhumanity.  Crazy people, those communists.

And you mean that there are no crazy people in a democracy ?. People random shooting kids in school sounds pretty crazy to me. And remember that hitler also came to power through democracy and i think we all agree the guy was nuts.

Also as a system it would work in theory and on small scales it does work for a finit time as long as the people in that community believe in it. The concept is pretty neat, everybody is equal and gets equal pay and wealth, yet in practice it does not work that way. Personaly i like the general idea behind the system but it will not work because of greed. It is much like you should not need a police force of jails nobody wants them yet they are there.

And dont you have a small communist system with your own friends, where you all help eachother without asking payment for it and freely sharing stuff?

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Hitler came to power in an Aristocracy that happened to have democratic elements.  Not the same as a representative democracy.  Also, children going to school and shooting people is not a fault of democracy, it's a fault of bad programming done by the liberal elite.  When the situation was run by the local matriarch and taught values and facts we did not have this problem.

[Nukchebi0]

Hitler came to power in an Aristocracy that happened to have democratic elements.  Not the same as a representative democracy.  Also, children going to school and shooting people is not a fault of democracy, it's a fault of bad programming done by the liberal elite.  When the situation was run by the local matriarch and taught values and facts we did not have this problem.

I find it hard to listen to you Jennifer, becaue you can't stop with the worthless attacks.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Hitler came to power in an Aristocracy that happened to have democratic elements.  Not the same as a representative democracy.  Also, children going to school and shooting people is not a fault of democracy, it's a fault of bad programming done by the liberal elite.  When the situation was run by the local matriarch and taught values and facts we did not have this problem.

I find it hard to listen to you Jennifer, becaue you can't stop with the worthless attacks.

Not my fault you attempted to equate Hitler to an elected official in a representative democracy when he was an appointed official in an aristocracy. (the Kaiser confirmed him after he was elected.  The Kaiser could have dismissed him, technically, though how literal the idea might be could be heavily debated on both sides.)

Then you go on to say it's democracy's fault for children shooting each other in schools when we can realistically look at history, with non-politically polarized goggles and see that it is more accurate to say it is a lack of morals being taught in schools that has resulted in the rise of crime.  After all, there were no documented school shootings between 1860 and 1900 when schools taught conservative values.  But since the 1960's, when schools stopped teaching morals and ethics and just touted the government mantras, we see a spike in violent crimes in schools.

Funny, when the facts come out, your statements don't seem to be very accurate at all.  And thus, you are reduced to your flame-thrower. 

[MechanizedWarfare]

 Also, children going to school and shooting people is not a fault of democracy, it's a fault of bad programming done by the liberal elite.

Wha!? Thats doesnt seem right.  Children going to school and shooting people is no ones fault but their own.  You can probaly go to the extent and blame the parents for not teaching the kids whats right and wrong.  However, if the kids knows that shooting people with a gun is wrong and the parents had taught them that, and the kid still does it, it is absolutely no one elses fault but the kid.  Doesnt make sense to blame democracy or as Jen said "bad programming done by the liberal elite."

[Cmdr Jennifer]

No, you can equally blame the teachers and the administration for not correcting children at a young age.  Raising moral and ethical children with the knowledge needed to be effective contributers to this world is not soley in the hands of teacher or parent, but in both.

Now, women libers (femi-nazis) have screwed up the home creating a situation where both parents have to work or plan to live impoverished thus removing the parent element from rearing of children and then over zealous lawyers have screwed up the schools so that teachers have no authority over kids anymore.

Add that to the "Oh Billy, you're so smart.  Yes, the Capital of France is London!  Here's a gold star and have fun in the 4th grade, Billy!" attitude of the social promotion system we find in school and you can imagine why children are flipping out and shooting each other.  It's not because they want too, it's because they've been driven mad by a system that seems - at least to them - to not care about them, and only want to warehouse them and shuffle them through each level before putting it's boot on their reer and kicking them out the door into the cold reality.



Let's face it.  We need teachers empowered to discipline kids.  We need to stop threatening teacher's pensions and tenure if they decide to teach morals and ethics instead of federally assigned curricula and we need to establish a 1 income family again so that parents can be home to raise their children.

[Nukchebi0]

Hitler came to power in an Aristocracy that happened to have democratic elements.  Not the same as a representative democracy.  Also, children going to school and shooting people is not a fault of democracy, it's a fault of bad programming done by the liberal elite.  When the situation was run by the local matriarch and taught values and facts we did not have this problem.

I find it hard to listen to you Jennifer, becaue you can't stop with the worthless attacks.

Funny, you can't start internallizing corrections to your malicious attacks.


Not my fault you attempted to equate Hitler to an elected official in a representative democracy when he was an appointed official in an aristocracy. (the Kaiser confirmed him after he was elected.  The Kaiser could have dismissed him, technically, though how literal the idea might be could be heavily debated on both sides.)

Then you go on to say it's democracy's fault for children shooting each other in schools when we can realistically look at history, with non-politically polarized goggles and see that it is more accurate to say it is a lack of morals being taught in schools that has resulted in the rise of crime.  After all, there were no documented school shootings between 1860 and 1900 when schools taught conservative values.  But since the 1960's, when schools stopped teaching morals and ethics and just touted the government mantras, we see a spike in violent crimes in schools.

Funny, when the facts come out, your statements don't seem to be very accurate at all.  And thus, you are reduced to your flame-thrower. 

I am so tired of this I didn't say anything about this at all. You put those words in my mouth. That is a retarded, wimpy tactic only used when you can't win otherwise.

[Nukchebi0]

No, you can equally blame the teachers and the administration for not correcting children at a young age.  Raising moral and ethical children with the knowledge needed to be effective contributers to this world is not soley in the hands of teacher or parent, but in both.

Now, women libers (femi-nazis) have screwed up the home creating a situation where both parents have to work or plan to live impoverished thus removing the parent element from rearing of children and then over zealous lawyers have screwed up the schools so that teachers have no authority over kids anymore.

Add that to the "Oh Billy, you're so smart.  Yes, the Capital of France is London!  Here's a gold star and have fun in the 4th grade, Billy!" attitude of the social promotion system we find in school and you can imagine why children are flipping out and shooting each other.  It's not because they want too, it's because they've been driven mad by a system that seems - at least to them - to not care about them, and only want to warehouse them and shuffle them through each level before putting it's boot on their reer and kicking them out the door into the cold reality.



Let's face it.  We need teachers empowered to discipline kids.  We need to stop threatening teacher's pensions and tenure if they decide to teach morals and ethics instead of federally assigned curricula and we need to establish a 1 income family again so that parents can be home to raise their children.

Actually, the fact that most of the kids are loners who no one ever talks to or cares about drives them to shoot people. The school system is not at fault as much as the social standing. We were discussing this today, and we also decided that people didn't release their anger as easily because there are less fights in school, or wherever, so the anger because more critical, until boiling over.

[Imperious Leader]

This is a topic of the German invasion of the Soviet Union AKA "Barbarossa" and nothing else. Keep on topic or the store is closed.

dont debate about:

Teachers
Rivers
Children
The archipelago
Gulags
or Corn fritters...

stay on topic

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Rivers were very important to the Russians during their invasions!  Without rivers they couldn't move their land forces around effectively, mainly because they were not exactly a network of intertwining roads or rails.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes they were, but more important was the weather and Germanys unpreparedness toward it in the winter of 1941-42.

Rivers are important in smaller campaigns where the focus was a narrow piece of territory and Bridges were needed to be kept intact. The campaign in the Soviet Union was a front of about 1,500 miles and rivers were not the only focus for Germany. The Pripet Marches proved a good defensive pivit to Stalin to keep army group south from further progression in 1941 until AGN was able to breach the northern portion of these marches and swoop down against Keiv and trap 665,000 russians.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

I was just pointing out that you were needlessly weeding out valid subtopics by eliminating things like rivers from the discussion.



Yea, the winter was bad.  Though, I'm not entirely convinced that it was as big a part in the war as, say, poor leadership was.  (And poor preparedness is poor leadership.)

[Nukchebi0]

So the winter took advantage of poor leadership.