Russian Invasion

[Nukchebi0]

When you look at a map of Russia, and look where Moscow is, you realize the Germans really didn't capture that much of Russian land.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes but the issue is they captured the most valuable portion of land where most of the Rich farmland was, where major raillines converged, oil centers... the very center of what Russia was in economic terms.  The German plan was to only move up to a line drawn Archangel north to Astrakan  south to the caspian sea. The rest was considered wasteland where the remnants of Soviet forces would be reduced to something akin to barbarian hordes with only the ability to read road signs so that they wouldnt get run over by German cars.

[Nukchebi0]

I figured that, but considering most of the Russian factories were moved there (the line, of course, is essentially the Urals,) wouldn't they have been able to rebuild a force to attack the Germans?

Or would the Germans have burned it, but not bothered covering it?

[Cmdr Jennifer]

They also got a majority of the river crossings.  The rivers were vital to the under developed Russians...actually, they've pretty much been vital until very recently...something about communist nations not having the money or the labor to build highly sophisticated rail or road ways...


But no, I don't think anyone but the Mongols have ever captured a significant portion of Russia.

[Imperious Leader]

I figured that, but considering most of the Russian factories were moved there (the line, of course, is essentially the Urals,) wouldn't they have been able to rebuild a force to attack the Germans?

Or would the Germans have burned it, but not bothered covering it?

They may have had factories in the Urals but they would have been bombed from Gorki... no oil, no foodstuffs, no way to transport materials, no man power would have led to a poor result in battle. The germans would have cut the siberian railline or allowed the Japanese to come thru to attack the other side of china and the middle east to India.

[Nukchebi0]

I figured that, but considering most of the Russian factories were moved there (the line, of course, is essentially the Urals,) wouldn't they have been able to rebuild a force to attack the Germans?

Or would the Germans have burned it, but not bothered covering it?

They may have had factories in the Urals but they would have been bombed from Gorki... no oil, no foodstuffs, no way to transport materials, no man power would have led to a poor result in battle. The germans would have cut the siberian railline or allowed the Japanese to come thru to attack the other side of china and the middle east to India.

So civilized, cohesive, Russia was Europe?

[balungaloaf]

st. petersburg is the window to europe.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Saint Petersburg was a Czar's attempt to Westernize Russia.

Unfortunately, for Russia, maybe fortunately for the world, it did not spread throughout Russia.



Imagine if Russia had an army the size they did using modern (to that time period) tactics and equipment and methods and training!  Ye gads...WWII might never have happened, but the EU would be the Union of Soviet Socialized European and Asian States!


Scarey thought, huh?  Of course, it's all hypothetical.  What we know is that a Czar went to school in France and learned about the navy, fell in love with the concept of a navy and went home to build one.  Then, to house his new navy, he commissioned the building of a city, named Saint Petersburg, and it was constructed to emulate the cities of the West, where he attended school. (France I believe.  That was the cultural center of the world at the time, so even if I'm wrong and he went to Germany/Prussia or England, I'm still not totally off base.)

[Nukchebi0]

Saint Petersburg was a Czar's attempt to Westernize Russia.

Unfortunately, for Russia, maybe fortunately for the world, it did not spread throughout Russia.



Imagine if Russia had an army the size they did using modern (to that time period) tactics and equipment and methods and training!  Ye gads...WWII might never have happened, but the EU would be the Union of Soviet Socialized European and Asian States!


Scarey thought, huh?  Of course, it's all hypothetical.  What we know is that a Czar went to school in France and learned about the navy, fell in love with the concept of a navy and went home to build one.  Then, to house his new navy, he commissioned the building of a city, named Saint Petersburg, and it was constructed to emulate the cities of the West, where he attended school. (France I believe.  That was the cultural center of the world at the time, so even if I'm wrong and he went to Germany/Prussia or England, I'm still not totally off base.)

Yeah. Command and Conquer: Red Alert, anyone?

[Imperious Leader]

I love to build millions of dogs and send them in hordes against the enemy... especially against the townspeople! but i hate when they die and you hear that last yelp in the snow..sad..

[Nukchebi0]

I love to build millions of dogs and send them in hordes against the enemy... especially against the townspeople! but i hate when they die and you hear that last yelp in the snow..sad..

Yeah.

So anyway, the loss of Moscow and Leningrad would have ended the Soviets because they wouldn't have been able to fight cohesively?

[Imperious Leader]

The loss of these cities and the southern oil centers would have crippled the Soviet economy. They cant move the oil fields and they can only pump so much of oil at a time.

[Nukchebi0]

Oil was rather important.

So the Soviets would have little, and the Germans would have had a source the Allies coudln't have bombed because they couldn't have reached it
 
Therefore, the Germans would have been more immune to the Ploeisti raids, and once the Soviets were shattered, could get around to invading Britain.

[Imperious Leader]

The plan to conquer the Soviets was the method to force england into surrender. After mopping up they would have taken all the middle east and consolidated hold on Africa. The loss of India, Suez, Malta, grater and other colonies ( Australia presumably) would have meant scraps as foodstuffs for england. Invasion would have loomed, but the war would have been over anyway at this point.
Hitler envisioned that future generations would have taken these consolidated territories and carried the final battle to American shores. An invasion of england would have been more of a landing of a deserted island with many people have allready anticipated the coming disaster for england and left to Canada and America. BY then the Italian fleet would have been reinforced with oil reserves and went to Brest and St.Nazaire  in preparation for the Sealion of 1945, when German would have Jets or all types and many long range bombers to attack USA. Occupation of the Azores from her new allies in Spain would have furthered possible coups in Argentina and chili and started a 5th column all throughtout south America.

[Nukchebi0]

But it never happened...

Thank you.