POLL: Most important Builds in Turn 1 (AAR

[Infantry Rocks]

My rationale for my votes:

1.  Russian FIG.  With 3 FIGs, Russia has plenty of offensive punch for territory trading in Europe to keep her income up, without leaving expensive ARM behind to be killed on a German counter attack.  Those FIGs also provide some serious defensive punch, and when combined with stacked INF, create a very nice Russian Meat Grinder for German forces that attack core territories.

2.  Baltic AC.  Cheapest way to get serious defense out of the Baltic Fleet.  Also creates long-range risk to Allies fleets by German FIGs since, unless contianed, the AC can sail out to recover FIGs that attack as far away as SZ2.  It also maintains a minimal Sea Lion threat that keeps UK "honest".

3.  UK AC.  In my opinion, this is the key to establishing control in the Atlantic, and in protecting TRNs that will be used to destroy Germany.  Without solid fleet defense from the start, the German AF and Navy are too great of a threat and will thwart Allied landing attempts until either fleet defense IS built by the Allies, or attrition finally takes out the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine, which may well occur too late for the Allies to save Russia.

4.  Japan IC (either Manch or FIC).  While TRNs are nice, that early IC will have huge production value against Russia.  Also, Japan hits their build limit VERY quickly without a second IC.  A J1 IC purchase prevents the build limit from being an immediate issue and allows Japan to maximize their drive on Moscow.

5.  US Atlantic TRNs.  The key to victory in KGF.  Get the US into the European war as fast and as hard as possible.

This seems like the tabia and I play some of these but it's always good to question the tabia to see if there is a better way.

Russian Fighter- Useful but do you need it turn 1? A turn 1 land buy turn 2 ftr is definitely an alternative. You won't really make full use of 3 ftrs until turn 3. With a land buy Russia has an early inf edge on the front which limits Germany's aggressiveness unless he wants to lose arm/art.

Baltic AC - I've always played it but now I question whether a destroyer would be sufficient. If the full UK fleet is stationed northeast of UK you don't really want to send 4 ftrs and a bomber after it anyway. Against any merger block the destroyer is actually better. A dedicated attack will kill either fleet, though of course the carrier will extract a higher price.

Japan IC-Yes but round 1? Without 4 transports your not maxing Japan's capacity and will likely not have time to go infantry picking in the Pacific. Also you initial push into Asia is stalled a bit. 2 inf might be important against an Allied attack whether it be KJF or just a strike against weakness.

UK car/US tran- Why not the other way around? US has more money to spent on luxury's and UK can more efficiently pump troops into Europe.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Thing is, even with a British AC you cannot effectively use the British fleet on R1 or R2 because the Germans can sink it with their fleet and airforce.

So what do you do?  How do you use your fleet on the first two rounds without loosing it to the Germans?  Bear in mind, it's two rounds before you can get a DD and 2 Trans from America to help defend your fleet.

[Infantry Rocks]

I'm not sure you can use it in the first two rounds but regardless in what order and who builds transports, ACs, land units and fighters, the allies can't really threaten much in the first two rounds without exposing their fleet. Just aim for a big round 3.

[NoMercy]

The IC in Norway is a good thing for the UK I think. (they always seem limited because of there 8 units on UK limit)

In my game vs Darth, I had 5 trns, and a IC on Norway (so your matching 10 units for units with Berlin right there...)

it doesn't take much to get over 32$ with UK... lets see.. Africa saved.. and you own Norway 33 right there.. little own your pesty drops on WE or EE or surruounding areas that will boost it to 35-40....

Plus an IC in Norway can create units to help the north line of supporting troops to Moscow to help vs the japs..

All in All an IC in Norway comes in handy, of course not for the first few turns, you have to first kill the baltic fleet, drop in Norway in force and have the americans around to help.

[ncscswitch]

For Rocks...

Both the TRN purchase and the IC would come into use at the same time:  J2. 

Japan only has 6 units on it to start, 2 of those probably TRN'd to Asia on J1.  Even if your fleet is in SZ60 (risky with US forces that can hit it), you can just barely gill up 3 TRN using Japan, Wake, and Oki forces.  If you are in SZ61 (more likely), then you only have 4 divisions available for immediate transport.  So, 3 TRN or 5 TRN makes no difference, you only get 4 divisions to Asia on J2.  And IC on J1 increases that to 7 divisions...

[Cmdr Jennifer]

The IC in Norway is a good thing for the UK I think. (they always seem limited because of there 8 units on UK limit)

In my game vs Darth, I had 5 trns, and a IC on Norway (so your matching 10 units for units with Berlin right there...)

it doesn't take much to get over 32$ with UK... lets see.. Africa saved.. and you own Norway 33 right there.. little own your pesty drops on WE or EE or surruounding areas that will boost it to 35-40....

Plus an IC in Norway can create units to help the north line of supporting troops to Moscow to help vs the japs..

All in All an IC in Norway comes in handy, of course not for the first few turns, you have to first kill the baltic fleet, drop in Norway in force and have the americans around to help.

The other option with England is to build RAF with excess cash.  8 Units plus an extra fighter here and there to replace your 17% losses from AA Guns would be nice.  Of course, against Infantry Rocks or your later AA Guns I'd need to factor in 80% losses to AA Guns....(hell, whenever I run battle sims I never include my fighters/bombers in the sim if there's an AA Gun there, I assume 100% accuracy and I'm rarely disappointed.)

[NoMercy]

which is why SBR is over-rated. why bother?

I only find it useful for when the Axis are a turn or two away from hitting Moscow and they want to prevent them from making them extra 1-3 units each turn before the assualt.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

SBR is okay if you arn't using the bomber for anything else and you don't have immediate plans for it (like need it in the next 1 or 2 rounds.)


And the number one thing you should always do in any AAR game is to NEVER ALLOW ME TO ROLL THE DICE FOR THE EGYPT BATTLE, at least not if you want me to roll in YOUR favor!

[NoMercy]

you did fine in our game

75% on defense and the same if not better on the counter-attack but after that I was letting you near Egypt without a fight.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

Okay, 1:30 I do well in Egypt even with ungodly attack to defense ratios.   Everyone has a bad day Mercy. hehe


Watch Germany loose everything hitting Egypt this game...I bet the Egyptians even figure out a way to sink the German Battleship with bolt action rifles!

[Infantry Rocks]

I'll agree with Jennifer. Having your bomber just sitting around is a waste so you might as well bomb. Even is bombing doesn't get you much IPC on average, Russia is very happy that Germany is trading 1 for 1 with US or UK.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

And still, if you have 7 bombers (US/UK) you should still be doing 21 IPC in damage a round.  (Assuming 1 is shot down, 3 get a '3' result and 3 get a '4' result.)  That's 7 less infantry a round for Germany and if you take out Africa that's 30 less a round to spend, or 10 less infantry a round for Germany.

It'll take a few rounds to get up to production, but it should take 3 rounds for Germany to finish taking Africa anyway.

[Infantry Rocks]

I don't know about buying 7 bombers. Due to loss caps the ally with 4 bombers will be losing money on the runs.

[NoMercy]

I can't see how a bomber is rarely sitting down doing anything anyway,

very useful in trading territories or you can bring it over to Moscow/cauc and hit Japan's IC's.

but either then that you may do 2-10 IPC dmg per bomber in its life before its destroyed by an AA maybe.

if you start buying bombers you must be sacrificing the troop builds themselves or sometihng. As Germany can hold the Allies off nicely for a while.

in my experience I just think SBR runs are most common vs Moscow. you need the troops with UK for the meat grind vs Germany or for a build-up.

this is coming from a game where she just bombed the living crap out of my germany income like 5-13dmg a turn and I still produced 10+ units including at least offensive piece.

its even hard for the States to Bomb. they build one this turn, then fly it to UK next one, then the next turn they can finally start hitting for a few dmg.

[ncscswitch]

If you are going to focus on SBR, then you may as well go all out...

Have the US purchase 2 BOM per turn, and roll the rest tech if your game allows it.  Go for Heavy first to maximize damage, then for LRA so that new BOMs can strike immediately.  If you are not playing a tech game, then use the remaining income eitehr for a TRN/some land units to reinforce UK assaults from time to time, or save the extra cash and buy 5 BOM every 2 turns.

With that, you can knock Germany down 16 IPC per turn (plus another 3 by UK until their original BOM is lost), and Japan for 3-9 depending on IC builds.  US will lose an average of 1 BOM per turn.

From an economic perspective, that leaves UK and USSR facing a Germany with an income in the upper 20's to low 30's (equal to UK), and Japan building in the mid to upper 20's or more, greater than Russia.

And that sounds like a losing proposition to me folks...