You know, it’s always nice when the dice cut you some slack. Like if you somehow manage to turn the British BB in Gibraltar into the Bismark somehow, taking out waves of fighters and dozens of submarines. Or if your defending fleet units hit on almost every hit against an attacking German navy, crushing the German north fleet in one fell swoop on round 2…but it just totally screws up the game!
Not to mention, HOW IN THE WORLD AM I SUPPOSED TO LEARN WHERE MY STRATEGIES ARE FLAWED WITH DICE LIKE THESE!?!?!?!
(I have to admit, the in house roller is pretty good, I usually see these kinds of results from DAAK.)
I just want a simple game with a highly skilled player with NO CRAZY DICE! (As I used to call my die in Risk: “DEATH DIE!!” Opponents would continually try to get my blue gem colored death die that allowed 1 lone man on a territory to successfully beat off a legion of 30 attackers…)
Is that too much to ask? Is it any wonder I’m leaning more and more towards requesting LL games, just so I can “prove” my theories without crazyness? I know it adds a dynamic element to the game, stagnating the staticness of overly rehearsed drills, but common…sometimes you need those boilerplate actions to see if your strats hold up!
HOW IN THE WORLD AM I SUPPOSED TO LEARN WHERE MY STRATEGIES ARE FLAWED WITH DICE LIKE THESE!?!?!?!!
Um…test those strategies more than once?
I would, dear, but I’m 3 for 3 in games with insane crazy dice! And that’s bad!
Dealing with wild dice is part of the game.
If your strats are holding up even with insane dice, then stick with them :-)
The BEST strats are the ones that work even with massive fracks against them.
And remember this about LL strats… those “automatic win 60%” battles are ALMOST as likely to go against you in an ADS game. That is why LL testing is not necessarilly a good idea…
:-) From the department of beating a dead horse :-)
If you don’t like dice play chess. Or GO. Or Checkers. Or Pente. Or… :-)
On a more constructive note, if you are winning even with crazy bad luck on your part your strategy must be reasonably sound.
If it helps look at all the dice rolls in a game and see if they are to averages. Don’t look at the sample as just your dice. Look at your opponents as well. Just because you rolled all fives in a particular battle doesn’t mean you are rolling more than your fair share of fives. It doesn’t mean you aren’t but if also doesn’t mean more than the normal number of fives are coming up.
I shrug my shoulders every time dice hit the table. Good or Bad.
Say it with me, “They are dice.”
She means her dice are amazing and she can’t test out anything not that her dice is sucking. any strategy almost works when everything is going right for you :-D
she just started this thread cause of our game…
My 2 SS, 1 DD, 1 AC , 4 Fgts, 1 Bmb in round 2 vs the British fleet (jsut had 1 round to move and build)…
Her 3 transports did better then my attacking force…I even lost a fgt in round 1 of that battle…
Not to mention in the same game, all the attacks on german territory are being taking WOL… that even includes the 1st ROUND!!.. lol I think On a few battles I had 1 hit… :)
and on any counter-attack I have outnumbered her forces and outgunned and barely win them. :) (german - russian front that is)
even my jap fighter died to her british trn around Egypt… :cry:
Switch I will agree with you dice are dice… but I mean to be realistic here… I have never seen dice this BAD before on any level.
in a game of risk its more realistic since if you tie you get a kill… I forgot to mention to Jen we were playing by risk dice rules… lol :evil:
Yeah personally,
i think somebody would have to be screwing up pretty badly or have some major fracks against them if “the best strats” are going to come back from that.
sometimes when its 2 very skilled players… some massive fracks ussually cost you a game…
Exactly, Merc. If you have two identical players and one side gets gruesome dice and the other out of this world lucky dice, one side is going to loose, bad.
It’s like having the weather lift during the Battle of the Bulge a week early. :)
And yes, I was referring to exceptionally GOOD dice for me screwing up my strategy testing! I can’t count on GOOD dice…look at my tournament game when I think I got 1 hit for infantry on 10,000 rolls! (yea, it’s exaggerated.)
And, btw, in LL I usually go with at least 80% to win ratio. I want to have enough there to hold the bloody thing when I take it!
Exactly, Merc. If you have two identical players and one side gets gruesome dice and the other out of this world lucky dice, one side is going to loose, bad.
The issue is, it is equally likely that either player will get the good or bad dice. Overall, it is balanced unless one guy is loading the dice.
In the short run, a few games may be skewed so badly as there to be little strategy exposed. But over many games, the dice skews back. That’s why I think ADS requires a lot of balls. As a theoretical principle, those who get distraught with the luck and play too conservatively wind up losing even more than they should, and those who stick to the math and take it as it is will probably win as much as they expect.
I too am starting to lean towards LL, but it definitely makes things too certain for my taste. I think it’s a useful tool in testing strategies between willing parties so you can take a shortcut to what you can expect of the strategy. I don’t think it fits the mood of the wargame though where chance and risk does play a large factor.
Yeah,
I still like ADS cause it does depic some stuff in real war like Weather, surprise attacks or just plain aweful defense…lol
THis game is starting to chalk up as one side is loaded with dice. :)
I will fight a honorable battle though…
yeah whatever.
Dealing with dice results is something you have to factor into strategy. That’s why a USSR attack on three German territories doesn’t work. It’s just too damn chancy. Even West Russia and Ukraine is horribly risky if you bring just two tanks to the Ukraine battle.
If you want to play Low Luck, that’s not a matter of wanting to minimize dice factors. It’s another game entirely.
Don’t blame luck. Blame your use of three 60% attacks.
“AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!”, whatever. Go play Low Luck, you’ll be a lot happier.
I think I can blame luck in this situation Paint-Brush…
her few transports did more damage then 4 fgts, 1 bmb, 1 DD, 1 AC AND 2 SS…
I don’t call that a 60% percent attack… Even If i had moderate to average dice… I was coming out on top with 3-4 fgts and my bomb still left.
Exactly, Merc. You shoulda had that battle handily. I was just hoping to sink your entire fleet with the loss of mine, in a couple rounds of battles.
Paint: I normally hit targets when I have 80% or better results. Though, the DAAK dicey has a code that says “Kill Jennifer” and I have to use 200% or better odds to not have to worry about at least having 1 man left at the end. (And, as any mathematician/statitision will tell you, it’s impossible to have more then 100%)
LL turns a lot of battles into 80+% when they’re normally like 60% or so in ADS =P
ADS seems to take a lot of battles that should be 80% with at least 1 unit left, 70% with 5+ units left and turn them into complete losses for the attacker too (usually with a significant force of defenders left.)
They also tend to even out.
Example, my current game last 2 Germany rounds.
2 rounds ago, Germany got ripped in a naval attack that should have killed every Allied TRN in the Atlantic. I killed 2 of 6, and lost my entire navy and AF doing it.
Last Round, Germany did a 63% attack against massed Allied forces in Karelia… and won with 9 ARM and a FIG left.
2 rounds, two fracks, one each way.
Over time, things even out.
Oh, one other thing regarding ADS and fracks…
If you are going for the 4 turn win, the fracks, even very small fracks, are going to kill you. If you are playin gofr the long term game (10+ rounds, the fracks lose a lot of their power, both for and against you.
@ncscswitch:
Over time, things even out.
Amen to that! :-P
Assuming you have time for them to even out.
If Germany looses 100% of her armor, artillery, fighters and navy by the end of UK 2, then there is no time for the fracks to even out. :P
Isn’t part of strategy and playing well minimizing the fracks? Good strategy will get you further with bad dice than bad strategy will get you with good dice. IMO.
My 2 SS, 1 DD, 1 AC , 4 Fgts, 1 Bmb in round 2 vs the British fleet (jsut had 1 round to move and build)…
Her 3 transports did better then my attacking force…I even lost a fgt in round 1 of that battle…
What was the defending fleet by the way? BB, Sub, 3 TRNs? But considering all the dice rolled how far did the standard deviate? After all ones will be rolled. So will twos and threes et al. If the ones come up when rolling ARM or BB or BMR no one notices, but when they come up for TRNs it is noticed. Did you get a 4 and 3 when rolling the SSs but a 2 for the BMR? That is two hits or one hit but well within the math of what can be rolled. Â
Rolling 12 6-sided dice:
1, 3, 4, 2, 4, 5, 1, 6, 3, 4, 2, 3
Now split that up among some normal attacks that would include twelve units. One time go from BMRs down and one time go from unsupported INF up. I’m guessing the number of hits will change.
I personally have always had a bit of trouble with the dice, with being frustrated when they don’t come up “my way.” I have been working very hard on taking that in stride. Not only was it taking away from my fun it was taking fun from others. I don’t want to sound preachy but I really am preaching.
The Gamer’s Serenity Prayer.
The only sure thing about luck is it will change.
May I be gracious when it goes bad.
May I be gracious and grateful when it turns good.
I will review my decision before I blame the dice.
I will review the dice before I credit my decisions.
I will step off my soap box with the definition of Luck I like the best, “Luck is what happens when preparedness meets oppurtunity.”
Frimmel, that’s nice and all, but what we’re, or at least what I am exasperated about, is when whole army’s defy the laws of probability. Yes, out of 6d6 you would expect 1 infantry on attack to hit, 2 infantry on defense to hit. But how often to you expect 5 or 6 hits from 2 fighters, 1 battleship, 3 transports and a carrier? How often do you suppose a carrier, destroyer, 2 submarines, 4 fighters and a bomber all miss, save 1?
Or how often is that lone battleship going to single handedly shoot down the entire luftwaffe and a u-boat?
