Shore batteries

[Admiral_Yamamoto]

Any ideas for shore batteries?

Long time ago, a friend of mine suggested shore batteries for our A&AP game, but we never implemented it. My suggestion would be to use AA guns with the same cost and movement. They would act as AA guns and shore batteries. The rules would be as follows: whenever ships move or stop through a sea zone next to an enemy territory containing a shore battery, the shore battery takes a shot at every ship passing by, with a required roll of "1" to be a hit. It would still take two hits to sink a battleship. Let me know if you think the player receiving the shots should assign which ships get hit, or the player shooting the ships should have some say in it.
Let me know what you guys think, and I think this unit could be used to any A&A game.

[ncscswitch]

Only modification woul dbe that I would limit their fire to ships engaging in an amphib assault (meaning they came clsoe enough to shore to be fired on), and even then only the TRNs and any vessels firing a support shot could be hit.

Also, I would not make them new units, just add the ability to existing AA guns.

This would be a slight Axis advantage under normal circumstances.

[Admiral_Yamamoto]

I like your suggestion.

[Imperious Leader]

Some people like our Jennifer like to use such rules under coastal batteries.

In practical terms within the structure of a heavily abstracted game its possible to have such things but at specific points like:

Gibrater: all ships that pass get a free shot at by the Brits say a 1 or less is a hit.

Baltic straights: same idea

Also under AARHE under invasions in the first round of combat after supporting shots from naval ships has been performed, any defending artillery get a free preemtive shot at attacking infantry. AA guns then fire at planes, followed by preemtive plane attacks ( only if the defender has no air support). Then the attacker can roll for infantry only. On the second round attacking armor/ art units can participate.. as they are being unloaded only after the beach is secure.

[tekkyy]

in fact we did consider having coastal batteries builtin to AA units in AARHE

we would then call the game piece ID (Infrastructure Defense) instead

[Admiral_Yamamoto]

I like that. When would they shoot at the ships?

[tekkyy]

We haven't decided yet.
But we think they can only hit enemy ships engaging in amphibious assault.

Come to AARHE and help us model it properly.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=6378.0
Just the last two pages.

[ncscswitch]

I wouold definitely say only those ships engaging in amphib (TRNs, BB's, and DST if you have something like Combined Bombard in the rules).

Question becomes... how do you handle the 2 hit aspect of BB's? Or do BB's simply shrug off the shore batteries?

[Imperious Leader]

Question becomes... how do you handle the 2 hit aspect of BB's? Or do BB's simply shrug off the shore batteries?

+++ Shore batteries only target land units incoming on invasion. AS you may know every 4 land units gets one free shore shot ( no fractions) plus each infantry ( they are the only land units that can attack in the first round) get a +1 modifier with each matching ship shore bombarding ship ( BB, CA, DD) . so if you got 6 infantry and 4 DD  then you get one free barrage (preemtive) plus 4 infantry are boosted +1 on that opening round.

[tekkyy]

+++ Shore batteries only target land units incoming on invasion.

ok so coastal batteries don't target ships only incoming land units (landing crafts in real life)

so if you got 6 infantry and 4 DD  then you get one free barrage (preemtive) plus 4 infantry are boosted +1 on that opening round.

more precisely you get 4 preemptive shots, but only 1 defending infantry can be killed
but your chance of getting that bombardment kill is much higher than if you only sent 1 destroyer

[Imperious Leader]

ok so coastal batteries don't target ships only incoming land units (landing crafts in real life)

++++ yes due to the fact that these ships are out of range for the most part. perhaps only in Gibrater can something be done on this.

Quote
so if you got 6 infantry and 4 DD  then you get one free barrage (preemtive) plus 4 infantry are boosted +1 on that opening round.

more precisely you get 4 preemptive shots, but only 1 defending infantry can be killed
but your chance of getting that bombardment kill is much higher than if you only sent 1 destroyer

+++++ How do you have 4 shots? only one ship can support per 4 infantry landed. the other ships merely support attacking infantry.

[tekkyy]

++++ yes due to the fact that these ships are out of range for the most part. perhaps only in Gibrater can something be done on this.

we could also allow Balkans/Turkey to shoot at ships entering or leaving SZ 16 black sea?

+++++ How do you have 4 shots? only one ship can support per 4 infantry landed. the other ships merely support attacking infantry.

this is just a little thing I convinced you earlier

both DD and BB (and now Cruiser as well?) can bombard...and we don't stop any of them from bombarding

the more attacking infantry the higher the maximum damage possible...1 every 4 inf
the more bombarding ships the higher the probability of getting close to maximum damage

[Imperious Leader]

We are on the same page.. we are also posting the same ideas about the same topic in two different threads...LOL

I gonna start on the player aids and the new battleboard tonight. Try to get some nifty pictures of ww2 that i can stick into the reformatted ruleset. Try to find pictures that appy for a specific topic... for amphibious invasions for example we need some pics on d-day landings and pacific island campaign. This will blend in well with the text. Use black and white if possible to cut down on peoples ink. Avoid pictures of the swatsika for obvious reasons. Remember this is going to be published on this site as a prime feature to bring people in.... a Free game!

Tekky im counting on you like never before!

[ncscswitch]

If a BB or DST is in range to hit land, then the land units are in range of the ships.  Land long-range artillery tends to be bigger and have a longer range than naval artillery.

Much of the German coastal artillery in WWII had a range of 11-16 kilometer.  Bofors had a range of neary 20 k.  And the 3 x 38 cm KM 36/35 had a range of 42 kilometers (abut 27 miles, equal to the longest range Naval guns)

[tekkyy]

What about those US coastal batteries against Japanese invasion in case they start losing Pacific war...