Can the US have naval superiority?

[squirecam]

2 IC are unnecessary.

However, the theory is, kill Japan before/same as Germany gets Russia.

You swap a 30 IPC country for a 24 IPC Country (except that everything east of Moscow is still allied).

It works if you do it correctly.

Squirecam

[ncscswitch]

Yes but LONDON may as easilly be the first to go in that situation... 30 IPC's in IC's, plus units built there...  That is precious little for London defense, and certainly no offense against Germany, with massively reduced UK income from the loss of Africa and no gains in places like Norway...

[squirecam]

I buy 1 UK IC.

USA 1 atlantic troops go to Sea zone to join with UK fleet and drop off troops.

London is pretty safe with USA help. And, if Germany only builds fleet, then Russia can go offensive.

I think 2 IC opens up UK too much though. And its unnecessary.

Squirecam

[frimmel]

A UK IC in India becomes a Japan IC in India, US boats in the Pacific or not.

[ncscswitch]

The ONLY way for UK to hold on to an India IC for any ammount of time is if the US also builds an IC in Sinkiang, and goes fleet heavy in teh Pacific.

UK also will have to spend a LOT of IPC's to maintain that IC... probably 18 IPC per round for 1 INF, 1 ARM, 1 FIG.

FIGs will be CRITICAL in India to keep that IC free of Japan domination.

A US IC in Sinkiang is a source of additional FIGs and prevents Japan from focusing land forces just on India.

And fleet forces Japan to spend a significant portion of their IPCs on Fleet.

However, a Sinkiang IC also requires some USSR INF to help secure it, at least initially.  And that simply makes the situation in Europe that much worse...

[MechanizedWarfare]

I havent played as the allies in a while, so maybe me and you can have a game switch.  I want to see if I can manage to have US strong navally in both the atlantic and pacific.  I must warn you though, im not hardcore into this posting every single day.  I will post for sure every 2 and maybe on ocassion 3 days.  You can play me on the side from another game like JSP has done so.

[ncscswitch]

I am still limitted to one game at a time, atl east or another few weeks.  And I have the 2-on-2 Tournament starting next week.

I also have a few other games in queue ahead of ya... but I will not forget ya!

[MechanizedWarfare]

I am still limitted to one game at a time, atl east or another few weeks.  And I have the 2-on-2 Tournament starting next week.

I also have a few other games in queue ahead of ya... but I will not forget ya!

No prob, I cant wait several weeks. 

[Cmdr Jennifer]

I wouldnt have UK add anything to the situation.  MAYBE an IC in India, but that also helps them hold Africa which is an attack on Germany.

No, I'd say the UK fleet assists in the Pac, but don't build more.  Meanwhile, the US can build up some carriers and fighters forcing the Japs to either attack the US fleet or give up the Pac followed by a nice containment.  Meanwhile, the US can build some subs (maybe even go for SS) for later when they want to sink the ��� fleet. 

Now Japan is limited to the mainland.  Sure, they'll get up to Moscow, but they'll be SO much easier to beat back since they won't have those 13 IPCs (or more if they collect more islands as some players do).  Meanwhile, the US now has an IC on Phillipeans, a very defensively strong fleet, 53+ IPC a round and enough bombers to SBR Japan back into the stone age while they build subs to take out the enemy fleet and/or build troops to retake Asia (giving them 9 more IPCs for Japanese held territories.)

[Bean]

I've done some fairly successful KJFs in that I can diffuse Japan well enough with a hardcore US navy, but the issue is always always that Germany is very strong by the time that happens, and Russia is on the verge of collapse.

There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent Japan from offloading 3 full rounds of troops into Buryatia, that's 12 inf 12 tank. That's hardly easy for anyone to beat considering Russia doesn't nearly have the troops to spare, and the US and UK are light years form being able to build that many troops there. That means Russia IPCs collapse entirely from the East while the Germans press hard from the West, and soon you have an 8 IPC producing Russia.

Germany happens to be vastly annoying without the US to perform its support role. The counter to KJF is usually to kick the crap out of Africa as Germany, and force Russia into large troop trades in deadzones while the Japanese unhindered still drop massive troops along the north. The UK solely has to deal with a possibly massive German fleet while maintaining an IC in India and attempting to liberate Africa, and land into Europe as well, because the US is very busy attempting to build the fleet it needs to beat the Japanese. It's a burden no matter which way you slice it.

I'm hardly one to pass complete judgment on a strategy like this; many strategies that I used to think were dumb actullly have some merit to them once re-examined. But I'm pretty sure that Germany is monstrous in this circumstance and the UK can be stretched too thin doing too many things, and certainly a clever Japanese player can strafe the transports out of the US fleet which prevents the island hopping, all the while the Japanese can be making more than the US is.

My $0.02 if you're going to KJF is always to reinforce the Pearl Harbor fleet with the Indian fig because it potentially either causes tons of damage to the Japanese or saves the entire Pearl Harbor fleet, which is an efficient move. And of course kill the Kwantung transport. Past that, I'm not positive on what are the best moves. An Indian IC is helpful, but on the other hand you may not have that option available if the Germans link a massive fleet together and get into Africa fast, since you'll need all your scarce dollars to whip up airforce and navy to handle that.

[ncscswitch]

Also remember one other major factor in having UK spend so much of their resources in the Pacific...
Fighters.

I have played quite a few games now, including my current one, where the ONLY thing that has kept Moscow from falling are massed Allied FIGs in Moscow (and by MASSED FIGs, my current game with Darth is a great example... 9 UK FIGs, 3 US FIGs, 1 USSR FIG).

Were it not for that HUGE number of Fighters, Moscow would be in Axis hands... dropped either to the INF/ART/FIG attack coming from Germany via their IC in Caucuses, or from the INF/ART/ARM/BOM forces that Japan has massed in Novo.

If the US is focusing on Japan in the Pacific, then the US is not building FIGs to fly to Moscow via UK
If UK is building forces in India, trying to re-take Africa, and attempting to do ANYTHING in an effort to land forces in Europe, even just northern landings trying to get forces to Moscow, then they most certainly are not building FIGs... especially since their income is down around $20.

No massed FIGs to Moscow and a virtually opposition free Germany means Moscow falls.

It is just a matter of the math in this case folks.  The US can't get enough forces fast enough into the Pacific to prevent an initial expansion by Japan and several waves of forces into Asia to strip Russia of her IPC's while Germany just beats the snot out of Russia and takes everything, including Caucuses, right up to Moscow's doorstep in 3-4 turns.

Russia with no money.
UK with only a third of its money
Germany at $50-$60 IPC's (Africa plus all west of Moscow)
Japan at $40 (having reached Novo)

The only real question is which falls first... Moscow or London.

And a creative player might even make a stab at Washington first, just for the fun of it.

[squirecam]

I'm sure those who try kjf and say it doesnt work usually commit serious errors along the way.

Im happy to teach it at gencon.

Squirecam

[Bean]

However, the theory is, kill Japan before/same as Germany gets Russia.

You swap a 30 IPC country for a 24 IPC Country (except that everything east of Moscow is still allied).

I think Japan is committing a serious error if it falls before or at the same time at Moscow. An island capital is nearly impossible to crack because you need either a butload of transports or battleships.

I think that KJF can work, but it is much in the same manner that the Axis can win without a bid. It doesn't have majority dice behind the strategy, instead faultily relying on some good dice.

Inevitably the truth is that you can contain Japan if you so desire. Japan is not strong enough to take on the attention of 3 nations by itself. I don't disagree with that at all. The problem is that Germany is unleashed, which is much closer to Russia and Africa, has more IPCs to spend, and starts with a lot more troops. Most of the endorsements that I read about KJF tend to glamorize the first and ignore the second.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

2 IC are unnecessary.

However, the theory is, kill Japan before/same as Germany gets Russia.

You swap a 30 IPC country for a 24 IPC Country (except that everything east of Moscow is still allied).

It works if you do it correctly.

Squirecam

Actually, you don't give Germany all of Russia.  Odds are Japan owns at least some of it and if you own their capital, that makes it basically nuetral territory until you liberate it.

Also, now Germany has to drive from Moscow/Berlin to get to you while you can sit and build up on the East coast, maybe send enough forces in to annoy him and keep him from turning on London, but otherwise, just build up and then start moving into Asia/Europe in earnest.

[Cmdr Jennifer]

My $0.02 if you're going to KJF is always to reinforce the Pearl Harbor fleet with the Indian fig because it potentially either causes tons of damage to the Japanese or saves the entire Pearl Harbor fleet, which is an efficient move. And of course kill the Kwantung transport. Past that, I'm not positive on what are the best moves. An Indian IC is helpful, but on the other hand you may not have that option available if the Germans link a massive fleet together and get into Africa fast, since you'll need all your scarce dollars to whip up airforce and navy to handle that.

I'd add take out the ��� submarine in Solomons.  One less ship shooting at American vessels.