Probably covered elsewhere… but tested in a couple of games recently, including games with small Axis bids that reinforced both Manchuria and Ukraine.
Russia 1:
Russia Buy:
8 INF (of course)
Combat Moves:
Take Manchuria using:
2 INF & 1 ARM from SFE
3 INF from Yakut
1 FIG from Russia
This battle has a better than 90% success rate for Russia with an average of 1-2 INF and 1 ARM left in Manchuria, plus the FIG landing in Yakut after the battle.
Strafe Ukraine:
Depending on any bid levels, you may need to adjust these forces down to prevent seizing the territory…
4 INF from Caucuses
3 INF from Karelia
2 ARM from Russia
1 ARM from Karelia
This will take out most or all of the German INF, and quite possibly 1-2 of the ARM as well
Retreat ALL forces to Karelia before taking the territory
Naval Battles:
Russian sub against German sub off Spain
Because of first strike provisions, this battle is actually a 60% win for Russia
1 TRN and 1 FIG from Karelia to Baltic
Again another 90%+ likelyhood of winning, with the FIG alive 70% of the time.
Non-Combat Movement:
2 INF from Evenk to Yakut
Land FIG from Manchuria battle in Yakut
Land FIG from Baltic battle in Karelia
Placement:
All 8 INF in Karelia
Benefits:
Combine with the Kwangtung Maneuver/Kwang Bang in UK1 to further damage Japan and cripple their Asian IPC gain and advance on Russia by another turn.
Oh, and before someone else posts asking about it…
The alternate strategy of a “Wall” in Yakut made up of 5-7 INF plus 1 ARM…
I also have been an advocate of that move as well, but I am shying away from it now and going with the more aggressive strat. Here is the reasoning.
1. By going offensive, you gain the IPC’s of Manchuria for your R2 purchases (an extra INF)
2. By being passive and retreating to Yakut, you give away SFE for free or nearly free. That COSTS russia an INF for their R3 build.
3. By taking Manchuria, and backing it up with INF advanced to Yakut from Evenk, it will be at least J3 before Russia can breach your defenses and take Yakut. Coincidentally, this is the SAME NUMBER OF ROUNDS that it takes Japan to take Yakut against the stacked defense. But by being offesnive instead of defensive, you get the extra IPC’s trhough J3… a difference of 3 divisions over the 3 rounds between the two strats.
4. Even considering losses to Japan BB’s of Manchuria, the net increase of INF is still 1-2 extra INF by being offensive.
So, with either open, against an aggressive Japan that is focusing on Russia, Japan will take Yakut in J3 with EITHER method. So why not get the extra IPC’s for a couple of rounds?
Switch isn’t this stating the obvious? :D
Switch isn’t this stating the obvious? :D
Actually, there are several variants for how you play outside of Ukraine/Karelia.
What you use to go after the German Navy…
If you go after just the Baltic Fleet or both the Baltic and the Atlantic sub…
If you pool your navy in UK SZ…
Whether or not to attack Manchuria at all…
Where to move the Evenk INF…
This post was to state reasons for doing even these “peripheral” attacks and NCMs in a specific way, and why.
This is why Axis need bids of excess of 20 IPC’s to have a shot.
Russia can do far too much damge on R1 with very little risk to the Allied cause.
DM, I think you may be mistaken. Have not had a chance to prove this yet, but I still think you may be.
As little as 9 IPCs of forces in ASIA blocks most of this move. 2 INF in Manch to block R1, 1 in Kwangtung to block the Kwang Bang.
Using small bid in Ukraine is counter-productive, since it has almsot no real effect on the Russia/Germaany front. BUT, in Asia, it prevents the lass of Manch AND Kwang, keeping Japan at full strength for J1 and forward.
Make it an 11 IPC bid and Japan can build those 3 INF before the game starts, and drop 3 TRN and an INF in J1. That is a MASSIVE power shift in Asia… one that forces Russia to divert forces from Germany immediately, not 2-4 rounds in to the game. Combine with trashing the UK Fleet in G1, as well as moves in Africa to gain IPC’s and weaken UK…
I think it is a heck of a strong tactic.
At 20 IPC’s, now we are talking 5 INF and an ARM in Asia. Drop India, Sinkiang, China, SFE and Yakut all on J1…
@ncscswitch:
As little as 9 IPCs of forces in ASIA blocks most of this move. 2 INF in Manch to block R1, 1 in Kwangtung to block the Kwang Bang.
But that doesn’t help the Germans in Europe or in Afr.
@ncscswitch:
Using small bid in Ukraine is counter-productive, since it has almsot no real effect on the Russia/Germaany front. BUT, in Asia, it prevents the lass of Manch AND Kwang, keeping Japan at full strength for J1 and forward.
Yeah, I’ll agree about 1 or 2 inf in Ukr.
BUT, you should put those 1-2 inf in EE. Let Russia have or strafe Ukr, b/c as you said they are sitting ducks in Ukr.
@ncscswitch:
Make it an 11 IPC bid and Japan can build those 3 INF before the game starts, and drop 3 TRN and an INF in J1. That is a MASSIVE power shift in Asia… one that forces Russia to divert forces from Germany immediately, not 2-4 rounds in to the game. Combine with trashing the UK Fleet in G1, as well as moves in Africa to gain IPC’s and weaken UK…
I think it is a heck of a strong tactic.
Again, it doesn’t help the Germans at all.
Russia can divert troops at will, because Germany will be all but removed from the game by G3. And rd 3 is the earlies the Japanese bid units can get to Mos.
It just isn’t enough to scare the Allies.
@ncscswitch:
At 20 IPC’s, now we are talking 5 INF and an ARM in Asia. Drop India, Sinkiang, China, SFE and Yakut all on J1…
But again, this doesn’t help Germany.
The Allies can afford to give up Asia, BECAUSE by the time the Japanese bid units can get to Moscow, Germany should be all but boxed in earning in the 25-28 range.
At this point Russia can turn her army against Japan and even push back.
A better 20 Bid would be:
4 inf Afr
1 inf Man
1 arm EE (or 1 inf save 2 cash to Ger bank)
Or if you can get 21+ go:
4 inf Afr
1 inf EE
2 inf Man
Either one of these should be enough to deter the R1 Man attack, and make it extremely costly for the Allies to focus on Japan.
I’ll tell you waht Darth…
I am more than happy to test this one in the near future… game with MADDOG is to end by 9 pm tonight (give or take an hour) and now it is just a matter of playing it out.
I’d be more than happy to take on a Classic gome with ya… 20 IPC Axis Bid, all in Asia. No technology.
I honestly think I can pressure Russia haster than you think… and do so in a way to give Germany some breathing room…
If you want to give it a shot, let me know, and I’ll re-set my Classic board after I am done with MADDOG…
And yes, I know that you decimated the Sea Lion Scare ploy… so I figure you are probably one of the best to test my PAsia strat against…
Sure.
I’ll assume regular dice (no LL right?).
Yeah let me know whenever you’re ready. I’ll be around much of today (tonight) and should be good for a turn or 2 a day during the week after work.
Infact, if you tell me where you want your 20 IPC, I’ll do Russia 1 and the you can set your board up and do Germany whenever your other game ends.
Sure… but I probably will not be able to do G1 until tomorrow (monday) evening.
20 IPC bid placement:
3 INF Manchuria
1 INF Kwangtung
2 INF FIC
2 IPC saved as Japan
