The 5 Territory J1 Seizure

Back when I first played A&A, one of the guys used a Japan strategy that took 5 territories on J1.

SFE with Japan tranny and battleship
Yakut with Manchuria forces
China with Kwangtung forces
Sinkiang with FIB forces
India with Phillipine Tranny.
Air power supporting.

On average, he won 4 of 5, with Sinkiang & India always being the challenges to take.

It left the Pacific wide open to the US (if they chose to go after Japan rather than Germany) but basically destroyed teh allied presence in Asia, allowing Japan to sweep vacant territories quickly, though with few land forces remaining until re-inforcements could be brought to bear and airpower loses were significant.

Has anyone else run into this?.

Do you think such a move would “sucker” the US into taking on Japan in the Pacific rather than heading for Europe?

Japan would still have all of it’s navy on the board, and could consolidate it in J2; though they would be lacking in air-power.  Japan would also be up 11 IPC’s, spending 36 to the US’s now 32, in round 2.  That would make a head-to-head battle of Japan vs US rather interesting.  Japan, building in home waters, could do tranny’s and land forces to support their Asian campaign (which will be grabbing another half dozen or so IPC’s in J2) and still have plenty of IPC’s AND time to defend against a 2-turn-to-execute US attack on Japan (or any significant islands).

Meanwhile, Russia would be getting CLOBBERED in Europe thanks to reduced IPC’s and the lack of US forces in Europe.  UK would be way down in IPC’s in Africa, and Germany would be hammering a weak Russia with little support from UK (especially if Germany took out the UK navy in G1 and G2).

So I don;t see US being suckered in to the Pacific even with the 5 territory Japan blitz.  Doing so would only strengthen the Axis and their strangle-hold on Russia.  Which means, it is up to Russia to stop the Japan incursions while also fending off Germany…

One other thing…

This strategy has never been tested against the Yakut Consolidation, which would obviously thwart not only the Yakut strike, but would also jeopardize all of Japan’s gains by leaving Japan exceedingly weak on both land forces and air forces to protect against blitzing Russian forces.

Ignore Yakut?

I’d rather let India go an extra round and take a territory closer to Moscow…
Only ONE territory space between me and Moscow, with two possible avenues of attack:  Novo or Evenk.

I’d also rather hit Sinkiang than India, if I had to choose; using AF and the FIB forces to secure that territory.  Then transport in 2 INF from Philipines to FIB.  Tranny is vulnerable if UK left fig in India, but worth the trad if I can secure Sinkiang AND China AND SFE AND Yakut.

By sacrificing India on the first wave, I have two pincers heading for Russia, both only 1 move away at the end of Round 1; both able to team up to hit Novo, or attack seperately into Kazakh and Evenk.

If the FIB tranny survives, I use it to grab the East Indies INF to attack India, plus add the 2 ‘new’ FIB INF from Philipines and move into India with air support on J2.  Meanwhile moving the surviving forces from my China strike to Sinkiang, SFE forces to Yakut, attacks in Kazakh/Novo/Evenk as opportunity arises, and start shipping combined tank and INF into Manchuria for the westward run.

Now, my navy is out of a job (except tranny’s) so see another thread for 2 options on the use of the Japan navy after J1 (one of them is rather unique).

@ncscswitch:

If the FIB tranny survives, I use it to grab the East Indies INF to attack India, plus add the 2 ‘new’ FIB INF from Philipines and move into India with air support on J2.

Also, if you use the “safe” Japan naval strategy I posted on another thread, by J4, India is going to get rocked AGAIN by the Japan capital ships plus carrier based fighters, plus additional INF IF it did not fall in J2 or J3.  If it did already fall, then I can put 2 figs, and 2 more INF there after taking 2 other IPC’s from UK in Australia, and then proceed to take Persia, Syria, Madagascar, and eastern Africa.

By J6 or J7, I can have an IC producing land forces for Africa in India (or FIB if I am feeling paranoid) and be shuttling 2-3 loaded tranny’s almost anywhere in Eastern Africa (Persia, Syria, Egypt, Italian East Africa if in FIB; or add Kenya and Madagascar if in India) every round.

And I can pull this off while still keeping the Russians pinned and battling over the Evenk/Novo/Kazakh perimeter

@madscientist:

Ahh yes very good. I like the idea of hitting Sinkang instead. That way, if the UK India trn has not been moved, it doesn’t matter. Also, to have Russia’s capital threatened by Japan by round 3 is also noteworthy.

That is always the trick to a "no bid’ game of A&A… Japan HAS to be a factor in Russia’s build/combat/non-combat moves by R3 in order to take the pressure off Germany.

It may at first be “minor” pressure.  But with the AF that Japan has, even 2 INF can be a threat to Russia (when backed by 3-5 fighters and a bomber).

The idea is to get that “minor” pressure in place ASAP, then start building up that pressure.  Within a few rounds, Japan is streaming 5+ tranny’s worth of forces every round: more than equal to Russia’s own build even at full IPC’s.

Add in the fact that Germany can destroy UK’s navy through round 2, and you have Russia in pretty dire straits.  Germany has been building, Allies have not been reinforcing, and Japan is already knocking on the door.  Ivan is looking a little scared…

@aaFiendish:

Yakut (3 inf and 1 ftr from man): 72%
SFE (2 inf, bb, 1 ftr from japan): 61%
China (2 inf from kwangtung, 1bmb): 30%
Sinkiang (2 inf from fic, 1 ftr): 81%
India (2 inf via tranny, bb): 4%

Upon reading your analysis, I did remember the missing factor:  Kamikaze AF as Japan (forgive me for forgetting, it was 16 years ago).

Re-analyze as follows:
SFE:        2 INF trans’d, BB, Japan Fig
Yakut:    3 INF Manch, Manch Fig.
China:      2 INF Kwang, Philipine Fig, Carrier Fig (suicide)
Sinkiang:  2 INF FIB, BOMBER
India:      2 INF trans’d, FIB Fig

My apologies.  As such, the 5 teritory blitz should be in house rules.

A FOUR territory blitz that excludes India is viable under standard 2nd ed. rules, as described in another thread; variable being the Yakut Consolidation.

Again, my apologies.

@madscientist:

That seems like it would be fun to try… Bid 3-4 inf in Burma or 7-8 inf in Burma if no RR. At least it would have the allies panic a little.

I think you are talking more than a LITTLE panic!  LOL

8 INF in Burma…
in J1, UK loses India, US loses both China & Sinkiang.  Japan either re-takes Manchuria, or reinforces it.  Usual tranny/INF build to stage for breaking the Yakut Consolidation in J3, or J2 if Russia pulled forces back to try to hold Novo.

By the end of J3, Japan would hold India, Persia, Sinkiang, China, Soviet Far East, and Yakut at a minimum; and would probably also hold Syria, Kazakh and Australia; possibly even Evenk and/or Novo.  You are looking at Japan being up from 12 to 21 IPC’s (probably around 18) in just 3 rounds, with forces adjacent to Russia, and Russia building at -6 to -10 (a loss of 2-3 INF per round).  UK would be down 4 to 7 just from Japan.

I’ll be honest, I think an 8 INF bid for Japan is WAY too high; game imbalance:  Axis victory.

@221B:

8 inf bid (or 24 ipcs) seems quite high to me as well.  As NCSC says, Japan will be in Novo by J2, J3 latest.  As the allies I would not want Japan strong in Novo before I could get the Allied inf to help defend… Russia falls on J4?

By my estimates, if they simply ignored the Yakut stack, swept into Sinkiang with the 8 extra INF, plus the original INF from Burma, and AF, and then took Manchuria and Kwangtung forces into China heavy; with AF landing in Burma.  So what if Russia takes Manchuria… Japan simply retakes it with a dual BB naval assist from their trannies; and those forces then are not being withdrawn to try to interdict in Novo…

Yep, I would say that Japan would certainly have enough forces in Novo to drop Russia by J4, MAYBE even J3, especially if Germany was duing some suicide missions to keep the INF count down in Karelia and/or Caucuses.