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Author Topic: Advantage to allies  (Read 916 times)
Niall
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« on: February 21, 2017, 07:46:53 am »
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I'm a beginner to Axis & Allies. I have the 1941 edition (the basic one, sometimes people seem to be talking about a different one when they mention 1941). I've played as the Axis twice and the Allies once against my brother. All three times the Allies have won (we haven't played the game until the end, just until Japan is defeated).

It seems to us that the Allies have an advantage in 1941. While bearing in mind we are total beginners and made a decisions that didn't turn out well; we did try varied tactics each time but the Axis side couldn't win. I don't know whether I am approaching the Axis side the wrong way. The big problem seems to be how the USA is greatly superior to Japan in economic power. The USA can recover quickly from losses while Japan struggles to recover in the short-term.

Here's a rough description of the three games we have played as best as I can remember. I would appreciate it if someone could point out mistakes that I may not have noticed or better approaches to take.

First game (I'm playing as Axis)
Japan makes gains quickly in China and Indochina, defeating the American infantry there. Later there is some conflict with British forces in India but Japan does not manage to expand any further. Australia and South East Asia was generally ignored. Japan's forces on the mainland and naval fleet build-up but don't really do much.[/li][/list]
Germany advances rapidly into Russia but I make the mistake of attacking Moscow too quickly (not realising how good infantry are in defence!) Germany's military is severely depleted and does not capture any more territory. Germany's navy is non-existent and the Allies have total control over the Atlantic.
Russia really doesn't do all that much in this game. Some territories such as Karelia and Ukraine move back and forward between Russia and Germany. The USSR is not really able to be offensive against Germany but Germany cannot defeat Russia either.
The UK builds up land and naval forces in Britain (with some US as well). The US slowly picks away at Japan, recovering quickly from any losses. The UK gains territory in Indochina.
The game ends with Japan slowly defeated. We stop playing there but Germany would have been defeated easily enough.

Second game (Me as Axis again)
This game is similar enough to the last one.
Japan follows more or less the same strategy again gaining control of China, Indochina and Eastern Russia but not India. Japan is relatively defensive again, with a military build-up around the Japanese mainland. Japan does attack the Eastern US fleet once and the US wins but only has one ship remaining. The US recovers quickly but Japan's navy is unable to regain its former strength.
Germany again focuses on Russia (but I learn from my mistake of moving too quickly last time). Germany captures all of the USSR's region's except Moscow. I can't remember exactly why but I was not able to capture Moscow.
Russia slowly recovers later in the game and manages to recapture some territory with assistance from the UK. Britain is more aggressive this time, temporarily capturing Eastern France.
The rest of the game continues much the same as the first one, with the US slowly picking away at the Japanese navy.

Second game (I play as Allies this time)
Japan does not build-up around the Japanese mainland to the same extent. They invade Alaska and attack the US pacific fleet but are repelled by the USA. Again despite suffering heavy losses, the USA's economic power allows it to recover quickly. Japan is not really able to recover. Japan almost entirely ignores China and South-East Asia.
Germany makes some early cautious gains against the Soviet Union but little compared to the first few games. Again any attempt's by the German's to establish an Atlantic naval presence are quickly crushed.
As the UK, I don't focus on building-up military in Britain and keep a minimal defensive force there. Along with the US, the UK captures all of China and Indochina. Japan having very little resources at this stage is defeated quickly.

Sorry for the long descriptions! From the three games, it seems as if it is important to defeat Russia quickly but I couldn't actually manage to defeat them entirely. Similarly as Japan I could never manage to capture and hold India, Australia or the Indies. When my brother played as the Axis, he was perhaps more wise in being aggressive against the USA where I was not, while completely ignoring Asia which I think was a mistake. He also did not seem interested in defeating Russia or capturing much Russian territory. In all three games (mistakes aside), the big problem was the USA's capacity to rebuild quickly and recover from heavy loses while Japan cannot.

If anyone has any suggestions of what we are doing wrong it would be great. Would it be a good idea to reduce the US's resource count? This seems to be the primary thing that gives the Allies an advantage.

Thanks a lot!

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Private Panic
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 08:34:32 am »
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Hi Niall and welcome to the forum.

Actually the axis have the advantage. The allies start the game with greater income, but the axis with greater firepower they can bring to bear. The axis challenge is to use that firepower to catch up economically before the allies an use their economic advantage to deploy ever larger forces to effect.

In particular the ability of G and J to combine against poor old R, given that China is so easily crossed by J, while the UK & US struggle to provide help to R, is a game winner. From your game descriptions I do not think you tried this.

The axis with R and the money islands have the economic advantage.

I am trying not to say too much as I don't want to rob you of the pleasure of working things out for yourself. Good luck in the next game.

Cheers
PP
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Wolfshanze
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2017, 07:11:42 am »
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Hello Niall...

I think you need to read this guys post, then maybe arrange a game between the two of you...
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39596.0

Earlier this week, we get a new guy to the forum that says its impossible for the Allies to win in 1941, and now you later in the week say its impossible for the Axis to win in 1941...

Thinks that make you go "Hmmmm..."

If you guys can't agree if the Axis or the Allies have a huge advantage in 1941, PrivatePanic and myself might just have to get into another Brits vs Americans debate.


From the three games, it seems as if it is important to defeat Russia quickly but I couldn't actually manage to defeat them entirely. Similarly as Japan I could never manage to capture and hold India, Australia or the Indies. When my brother played as the Axis, he was perhaps more wise in being aggressive against the USA where I was not, while completely ignoring Asia which I think was a mistake.

If anyone has any suggestions of what we are doing wrong it would be great. Would it be a good idea to reduce the US's resource count? This seems to be the primary thing that gives the Allies an advantage.

With all due respect, and totally realizing you're new to A&A (and welcome to the community) It's kinda funny you repeatedly mentioning the great economic might of the US... while that is certainly a thing in all the A&A game versions (save one), I've personally always hated the complete "lack of economy" in 1941 (ah, there's the one), as out of all the A&A games, 1941 seems to me to be a "play with what you start" game, because MAN... reinforcements sure come slowly in 1941 because there's so little income on the board. Having said that, it's my personal opinion and I could be wonkers on that... but, aside from that comment, let me see if I can help you more specifically with your problem (if you really want some advice)... I will warn you.. SPOILER ALERT, if you want to figure things out yourself, I'd stop reading now, as PrivatePanic was obviously giving you that opportunity... I, as an American, am not so adept at giving you that chance.

Last chance... I'm warning you...

SPOILER ALERT

With Germany... yes... Killing Russia fast is the key... also, keeping the UK/US off your back is a good idea too... I'm going to offer some general advice, not "move force-x here to kill force-y"... If you want that specific, I suppose you can ask, but i'll just give some gentle shoves in the right direction...

German Strategy: use your Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine on turn-1 to seek out and destroy just about every British ship you can get your hands on... sacrificing ships over planes when needed, you really want to remove the British fleet ASAP to force Britain to spend several turns rebuilding before they are a threat again... use the Luftwaffe as a deterrent and enforcer to keep the UK fleet down after turn-1. Build to kill Russia... in other words, don't buy ships.

Japan Strategy: grab the SW Pacific money islands, consolidate the fleet, and make it expensive for the US to push into your territories... don't worry about Australia, Hawaii or the US mainland... your focus should be delay the Americans in the east, and push against China/Russia in the west. You want to make Russia bleed... anything you can kill/take-away from Russia, help your German partner... if India is open, take it, but it should not be the main focus, the main focus is pain for Russia, because your ultimate goal is to take out Moscow from either direction, and the more pressure you put on Moscow (make the Russians have a two-front war), the better for Germany. The UK should not be able to put much into India if Germany does her job and destroys the British Fleet... those Brits will be spending all their money back in Europe, not against Japan. Keep the J.a.p. (keep forgetting this board won't let you say that super-bad abbreviation) fleet consolidated so it can not be picked off peace-meal by the US... there's no economic or real military advantage to having a big fleet battle with the US, if they want one, make them pay for it, your focus is on eliminating Russia from the Asian side. You can do this buy building land units and ferrying them over to the Russian front (maybe an extra transport and some tank builds can put the heat on Russia).

You do the above two things, you might join the other guy in complaining that the Allies can't win in 1941... there, now I've spoiled the game for you, but it should help solve your problem and possibly upset a British guy who wanted you to not have the game strategy spoiled for you... all-in-all, a win-win scenario.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 07:48:06 am by Wolfshanze » Logged
Private Panic
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2017, 09:52:21 am »
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It is a wonder the allies ever managed to co-ordinate anything if Wolf and my UK/US differences are anything to go by ....

One of the interesting things when playing with all 5 players is the sheer difficulty of gaining a meaningful degree of co-ordination between the allies. I particularly remember one player seemingly incredibly well suited to being the leader of R.

So top marks to the UK & US commands in WW2. What a good job they did! It would be fun if we ever got a chance to find out if Wolf and I could actually co-operate in a game. First, he'd have to recognise that I am always right ....

 cheesy
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Wolfshanze
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2017, 10:16:54 am »
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So top marks to the UK & US commands in WW2. What a good job they did! It would be fun if we ever got a chance to find out if Wolf and I could actually co-operate in a game. First, he'd have to recognise that I am always right ....

Of course you're always right... as long as you're agreeing with me!   grin
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