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Author Topic: Submarine Question  (Read 1079 times)
Miffinat0r2445
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« on: January 19, 2017, 12:23:15 pm »
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Few quick questions on Subs

•What's the purpose of Sneak attacks.

For example if I send 1 Sub vs 1 Carrier can the Sub sink the Carrier on a hit of 2 or less without having the carrier retaliate? Does this also apply if there's fighters on board?  Is that how that works? Furthermore does it only work once per combat round? So at the start of the combat round the Sub only gets 1 Sneak attack then it operates as a normal combat unit?

•Can other Naval units attack subs?

Can I send a battleship after a Sub or can only Destroyers do that? Or do Destroyers only minimize the Sub's ability to flee?
I think I got the jist of most of the Sub. Planes can't hit the sub unless there's a destroyer present.
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P@nther
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 05:33:08 am »
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I think I got the jist of most of the Sub. Planes can't hit the sub unless there's a destroyer present.

Welcome to the forum, Miffinator!

This is not correct for the Revised Edition. Please verify to which version of the game your questions apply.  smiley
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Miffinat0r2445
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2017, 10:25:21 am »
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I think I got the jist of most of the Sub. Planes can't hit the sub unless there's a destroyer present.

Welcome to the forum, Miffinator!

This is not correct for the Revised Edition. Please verify to which version of the game your questions apply.  smiley

Again I'm using the 2004 Revised version. I'm confused about the Subs. What benefit does submerged do?
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P@nther
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2017, 10:48:42 am »
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Ok then:

Few quick questions on Subs

�What's the purpose of Sneak attacks.

For example if I send 1 Sub vs 1 Carrier can the Sub sink the Carrier on a hit of 2 or less without having the carrier retaliate? Does this also apply if there's fighters on board?  Is that how that works? Furthermore does it only work once per combat round? So at the start of the combat round the Sub only gets 1 Sneak attack then it operates as a normal combat unit?

Yes indeed, the lonely carrier sinks without shooting back. In case there are fighters, those are defending in the air. The submarine's hit must be assigned to the carrier, as subs cannot hit air units. The carrier again does not shoot back - but the fighters (in this edition) can hit subs, so the fighters shoot back.

The sub gets it's sneak attack (step 2) on every cycle of combat (steps 2-6).



�Can other Naval units attack subs?

Can I send a battleship after a Sub or can only Destroyers do that? Or do Destroyers only minimize the Sub's ability to flee?

Destroyers cancel the sub's special abilities. Every sea unit with an attack/defense value can shoot at subs (so transports when defending, too), however the sub may choose to submerge after the first cycle of combat if no enemy destroyer is present.

Planes can't hit the sub unless there's a destroyer present.

In this (Revised, 2004) edition air units can hit subs. No destroyer is required.


Please ask if anything remains unclear.

HTH smiley
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 01:08:17 am by P@nther » Logged
Miffinat0r2445
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 09:01:26 am »
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The sub gets it's sneak attack (step 2) on every cycle of combat (steps 2-6).

[/quote]

Please ask if anything remains unclear.

HTH smiley
[/quote]

Particularly that.  What is a sneak attack?  It's combat before the combat phase.  Could you explain that to me as well?  I'm a tad confused there.
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P@nther
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 09:25:00 am »
+1

Particularly that.  What is a sneak attack?  It's combat before the combat phase.  Could you explain that to me as well?  I'm a tad confused there.

I am referring to the combat sequence (see rulebook p15,16). The submarine's fire in the 'Conduct Opening Fire' step (step 2) is called "Sneak Attack".
It fires before other units regularly fire in this step, in case there is no enemy destroyer present. Destroyed enemy units (by the sub's attack) can not fire back then.

HTH smiley
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thetruegriffin
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 10:57:51 am »
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I've always read the rules that the subs' opening salvo is similar to AA fire.  You fire at the beginning of combat, but not every time.  they essentially get one free shot (like AA guns) before the attacker rolls.
As stated before, if there is a destroyer present, this negates that special ability.
It also depends if you're defending and submerged or not.
If you're attacking and want to use your subs, they can't be submerged.  So they can be hit in return fire rolls.  If you're defending and submerged, you can opt to not include them in combat...but they don't get to fire at all.
Additionally, I'll double check, but I don't ever remember the rules stating that subs can't shoot down planes (most of them actually did have AA capability on the deck).  Revised isn't specific...but essentially it's just dice roll versus dice rolls.  In later versions it gets more specific into the abilities of each unit.  If you want to play that way, fine.  But it adds a lot more nuances (and length) to the game. 
Again, if the sub is submerged, it doesn't attack.  it's just spared from the combat.  You can submerge subs and retreat them after the defender gets to fire back.
Again, if you want to get into the weeds of naval combat, that's fine.  But this version of the game isn't meant to be a tabletop tactical battle.  It's a sheer strategic numbers aligned with probability styled game.  I wouldn't recommend getting to specific with newer players.  If you have a close group who play often, go ahead and see how you like playing with those house rules.  Cheers.
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MidSpeck
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 01:03:15 pm »
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I've always read the rules that the subs' opening salvo is similar to AA fire.  You fire at the beginning of combat, but not every time.  they essentially get one free shot (like AA guns) before the attacker rolls.
This is not correct for Revised.  All submarines (attacking and defending) fire during step 2, every round of combat.

As stated before, if there is a destroyer present, this negates that special ability.
Destroyers do two things: 1) they allow casualties to be able to shoot back, 2) enemy submarines cannot submerge (withdraw early from the battleboard).

Remember, submerged submarines (either side) are not on the battle board any longer.  They are placed back on the game board and are not involved in the battle after submerging.

Additionally, I'll double check, but I don't ever remember the rules stating that subs can't shoot down planes (most of them actually did have AA capability on the deck).
Submarines can only hit sea units.

Here is the portion of the rulebook that applies (in the submarine unit profile section):
Submarines always fire in the opening fire step, whether on attack or defense. They can fire only on sea units. Casualties from this attack will be destroyed before they can return fire, unless an enemy destroyer is present. (Any sea or air unit can hit a submarine.)

The FAQ also has a page or so dedicated to common submarine questions:
harrisgamedesign.com /pdf/A&A_Revised_5_FAQ.pdf
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thetruegriffin
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 05:18:45 pm »
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sounds good.  havent' been able to dig out and check for myself.  thanks.
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