July 23, 2017, 12:45:57 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Read all about what's new on the Axis & Allies .org Website Search me
  Articles  
   Home   Help Login Register AACalc  
Loading
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
Author Topic: German quick route to middle east back of Russia  (Read 523 times)
Strollmasta
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 40


View Profile
« on: January 11, 2017, 08:28:07 am »
0

G1 buying a minor complex and placing in Romania. G2 placing 2 (maybe 3) transports in sea zone 100. G3 buying Carrier and destroyer, transport units to Causasus, and push units East into Russia. Place Carrier and Destroyer in sea zone 100 and land two fighters on carrier that may have been used in a fight. Consider upgrading Romanian factory to a major at some point.

My thoughts are having the ability to quickly move german units into the back side of russia, and into the middle east to capture territories and national objectives. What i don't like about it is the cost of the transports and ships in sz 100 that wont get out unless strict neutrals are attacked which I wish to avoid. Units could be transported to Ukraine and quickly take over the southern side and back of russia.

Once you get a few tanks and mechs on the back side of russia scooping up territory after territory, you can send in bombers to Moscow   and have places to land, and really slow down Russia.

Just came to mind that you would probably also want a naval base in Romania to fix you carrier if attacked... Thats another 15ipc's.
I am not sure this is an effective way to spend the ipc's. Maybe just buying land units and pushing through Russia is the ticket.
Logged
Strollmasta
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 40


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 08:40:21 am »
0

Wondering if the national objectives obtained and land in russia would justify the expense of it all.
12 minor factory, (I like the idea of a factory here anyways so it's not entirely an expense for this push alone.)
14 in transports,
15 in naval base,
16 in carrier,
8 in DD
(maybe could avoid naval base by getting two destroyers but your defense is weaker)
65ipc's spread over 3 rounds.
Logged
Arthur Bomber Harris
A&A.org Battleship
******
Posts: 4391



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 08:54:24 am »
0

65 IPCs spent on non anti-Russia fighting forces generally means that Moscow cannot be captured in any reasonable period of time.  It also means that the Russian stack can stand toe-to-toe with the German stack and not be afraid.  That frees up the UK to start producing fast units in Persia.  Combined with a significant UK air force, that can usually push a minor German expedition out of Russia's soft belly. 

I am not saying that it couldn't work, but I am saying that I rarely see Germany succeed if they significantly spend on anything other than ground units and planes. 
Logged
Afrikakorps
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 50


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 08:57:05 am »
0

Personally I like the idea but think its too expensive as it becomes obsolete after you have taken over Southern Russia in 2-3 turns. You do get those bonuses fast and especially if this allows you to take over Middle East + Southern Russia and eventually Egypt this gives you 21 NO bonus IPC per turn after G5-6, +20 in territories.

However the Russian player could easily build airforce of around 6 planes to destroy it and then its an absolute waste of points not invested in troops.

In my opinion it starts becoming a great investment when you plan to crush the neutrals and it allows you to enter the Med. It you would be interested to consider that or the discussion around it take a look at the Afrika Korps plan most recent ideas.
Logged
wilk7011
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 49


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2017, 09:30:55 am »
0

The biggest issue with this is why build that much navy with it. Unless I am ill-informed all those units are trapped and can not get past the straight of Turkey unless you also invade and capture Turkey.
Logged
Strollmasta
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 40


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 09:44:25 am »
0

Protect the transports is all. Could always attack turkey and come out of the strait. Hope was to be able to take a bunch of Russian territory so they don't have the money to build a big defense or counter assault. By the time you attack Russia, say turn 3, or 4, they've had that many rounds to build troops with, by the time you do get to Moscow door they have another 2-3 rounds of stacking. Kind of felt this could slow down the stack and let you bomb Moscow. I

I free its a lot of money that is probably better spend on troops. Gonna keep toying with figures.

Could also use to push into Calcutta, china and Egypt.
Logged
Afrikakorps
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 50


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2017, 10:00:25 am »
0

Protect the transports is all. Could always attack turkey and come out of the strait. Hope was to be able to take a bunch of Russian territory so they don't have the money to build a big defense or counter assault. By the time you attack Russia, say turn 3, or 4, they've had that many rounds to build troops with, by the time you do get to Moscow door they have another 2-3 rounds of stacking. Kind of felt this could slow down the stack and let you bomb Moscow. I

I free its a lot of money that is probably better spend on troops. Gonna keep toying with figures.

Could also use to push into Calcutta, china and Egypt.
I do not agree that fleet is a waste of money, actually I prefer to buy fleet for all Axis in the first turns of the game as fleet (transports) = offense advantage + mobility which you need. It could be a good investment but because its such a big investment design your remaining strategy so it correlates with your goals. I have used your plan a lot when I started playing Germany with great succes. But it also failed sometimes (more and more) and I realized it was sub-optimal. You could fix that
Logged
taamvan
A&A.org Submarine
*
****
Posts: 666


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2017, 10:56:50 am »
0

Germany can hide behind peace.   Will probably need a Major Complex because placing only 3 units per turn isn't enough (even carrier+2TT).   Extremely slow and expensive plan that requires you to spend the G2 money to put this fleet down.

It only works because Russia has too few planes to smash you outright.   If they could, then they should because its a navy trapped in a puddle and if they wreck it, Germany lost the game.

ABH has this right that while the Black Sea Fleet is a clever enough surprise, it wastes 2 turns of spend and time on units that cannot march to Moscow.   It does make south Russia indefensible, but so do stacks of tanks produced starting G1 not G3.

Maybe the best use of this is as a decoy to try and get the Russians to attack you with their planes...but if they fail to do so they are not really that much more vulnerable than if there were no fleet there (yes troops can amphib to the Caucasus, but they could simply march through or out of Ukraine instead, which is a free objective, not a $100 spend).  When you wait to start the march and spend the money on things other than tanks mechs and arty, the drive on Moscow falters...

You have to march on Moscow, the earlier you start the better...
Logged
Ichabod
A&A.org Submarine
****
Posts: 523


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2017, 11:20:37 am »
0

I think this strategy would mostly bite off more than the chew is worth, but it would be very fun!

Purchasing a carrier + 1 destroyer +2 fighters on the carrier is enough protection for transports to make Russia think it's not worth sacrificing it's air force to sink the transports. No need to build a naval base...I disagree with that being "used" as a con for this fun idea.

This might be the situation like Africacorp states where violating the strict neutrals would make sense (but only if Germany and Italy would be in position to start that "race" while Japan doesn't do a J1 attack). And the only reason to violate the strict neutrals would be to land 6 ground units, plus the Luffwaffe hitting and taking Cairo (or setting it up for Italy). The point is to further economically hurt UK Europe, gain an NO, and gain access to more NOs in the Middle East.

A plus here of course is if the UK already built an IC in Egypt and it then got captured. Upon capturing Egypt, you'd bring the fleet back to SZ100, keep churing out lots of infantry from Germany proper marching to Russia and W. Germany for defense, while using the transports in the sea zone to fight for the Caucasus. You may still never get Moscow. But this strategic theory makes me think it's more for a building a situation where the Europe Axis board side becomes economically strong to the point they win by default.

Regardless, I do think that this strategy most likely would result in a fail due to extra risks/costs/ect. compared to the traditional time tables and purchases for a traditional Barbarossa. Germany might get hit too quickly at Norway or Holland and the allies stick a landing. Maybe a J1 might be a good supporting option after all. The allies player(s) might lick their lips and decide, I'm going to KGF and ignore Japan which then gets out of control. Anyways, as I said in the first sentence it looks like it would be fun. After all, we play this game for that reason.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 11:34:12 am by Ichabod » Logged
Ichabod
A&A.org Submarine
****
Posts: 523


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2017, 11:44:02 am »
0

Taamvan,

Major IC due to timing I think brings this risky adventure much more risky because of no war units being purchased G1 period. But I see your point of timing vs. cost. And I do agree that the surprise factor is important.

If purchasing a Major IC, then all of the boats would be purchased on Turn 2, then used to hit the Caucasus on Turn 3.

If purchasing a Minor IC, then transports would be purchased on Turn 2, then used to hit the Caucasus on Turn 3 (then Germany would place new units (carrier + destroyer + fighters) there for protection). So I don't see the actual time saving by purchasing a Major.

If purchasing a Minor IC on Turn 1, I would also purchase 3 artillery and 2 infantry (5 ground units) to try to mitigate the naval purchases. Remember, often people used to purchase a carrier + 2 transports, or a destroyer and a sub and no ground units to "fake" Sea Lion. Some still purchase all naval units on G1 and still make it to Moscow.
 
Logged
Strollmasta
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 40


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2017, 12:47:45 pm »
0

Thought with a turn one I'd get and minor ic, and a tank and 3 artillery. Dark Skys UK G2. Plan to keep USA out until turn 3 with taking Borneo and Philippines. Figure once you have Ukraine you can use that factory on SZ100 as well.

Dunno, I'd love the quick dash to the middle east and back side of russia to watch them panic. I think Moscow could be taken after Russia goes too many rounds with out ipc's to spend and factory bombed out. However I do agree that the money in troops is necessary to breaking down russia.

What do most of you do to get German troops to Egypt? Transports from Yugo? minor in Yugo and send em down?

If you take out Turkey, how do players keep USA from taking spain. Talk about spreading your boarder troops thin.

 
Logged
Ichabod
A&A.org Submarine
****
Posts: 523


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2017, 04:35:03 pm »
+1

Strollmaster,

In my games, Germany doesn't get troops to Egypt because I'm playing a competent UK player. The only time(s) that's remotely possible and has occurred is if the UK player doesn't take out two Italian transports UK1. In that situation the German Luffwaffe is used for defensive purposely to let Italy build up on Alexandria before attacking Egypt. Never have I as Germany thought it smart to purchase an IC in Yugo just for the purpose of going after Egypt. Not worth it all. In that case, let Germany get S. France. I think purchasing a minor IC just for hitting Caucasus is a better plan than a minor at Yugo for Egypt.


Ichabod
Logged
Strollmasta
A&A.org Mechanized Infantry
**
Posts: 40


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2017, 06:57:22 pm »
0

Cool, thank you. Just finished round one and I'm debating still if I should use the Black Sea or buy land units and push into Russia. Silly Russia bought a carrier and a destroyer round one lol. U.K. Pulled all its med troops through the Suez Canal, and brought in the cruiser off Gibraltar to attack my cruiser and transport in sz96. They also left trans Jordan empty so I meant to transport a man to trans Jordan to block the canal but wasn't thinking right and went to do it in non combat phase and realized that's still a combat move even though there was no combat. So of course I wasn't allowed to go back and fix that blunder. So I suspect to lose a battleship two cruisers and two transports out of it. I sent my sub and destroyer, both Italy planes and bomber after the French ships. They died and took my sub and destroyer out. Sent bb, two cruisers, after the one U.K. Cruiser. Took it out with out a return hit. Transported a man and tank to Tobruk, and meant to put one on trans Jordan. Having a hard time not feeling like it's a nasty hole to try and get out of. I didn't spend my $10 and got $20 so I've got $30 to play with. Figure I'll let U.K. Take my ships out and then hit them with planes and clear the med again. Crap
Logged
barney
A&A.org Fighter
*
*
*****
Posts: 1084


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2017, 07:46:30 pm »
0

Wow Russian carrier. Can honestly say I've never seen that before : )
Logged
ShadowHAwk
A&A.org Aircraft Carrier
******
Posts: 2791


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2017, 10:57:49 pm »
0

Strollmaster,

In my games, Germany doesn't get troops to Egypt because I'm playing a competent UK player. The only time(s) that's remotely possible and has occurred is if the UK player doesn't take out two Italian transports UK1. In that situation the German Luffwaffe is used for defensive purposely to let Italy build up on Alexandria before attacking Egypt. Never have I as Germany thought it smart to purchase an IC in Yugo just for the purpose of going after Egypt. Not worth it all. In that case, let Germany get S. France. I think purchasing a minor IC just for hitting Caucasus is a better plan than a minor at Yugo for Egypt.


Ichabod

The minor isnt just for getting egypt but for getting the middle east and for helping out italy.
Since you can produce units in a protected SZ ( south italy airbase ) you can help italy become strong enough to stay afloat in the med.
This can give italy a 15 ipc NO germany a 5ipcNO and they can share the other 6 ipcs.

though south france is cheaper it is also riskier as UK might be able to hit it with more units and you dont have a scramble. Yes you can build an airbase there to protect but  the minor IC is a cheaper investment.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

2017 Support Drive

Read about this support drive.
Support Level
Forum Username
Note: payee will appear as Livid Labs, LLC.
Buy Axis & Allies
  • Axis & Allies 1942 [Amazon]
  • A&A Pacific 1940 [Amazon]
  • A&A Europe 1940 [FMG]
  • [eBay]
  • [eBay]
  • A&A D-Day [Amazon]
  • A&A Battle of the Bulge [Amazon]
  • [eBay]
  • [eBay]
  • WWII Themed Combat Dice [FMG]



Axis and Allies.org Official Gold Sponsor: Historical Board Gaming

Axis & Allies.org Official Silver Sponsor: Field Marchal Games
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP © 2015 Livid Labs, LLC. All rights reserved.
Axis & Allies is registered trademark of Wizards of the Coast, a division of Hasbro, Inc.
Note: the copyright below is for the forum software only.
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!